Nathan. Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Everyone is so obsessed with America. All I see on TV today is America and it's frustrating. It seems New Zealand is more worried about the election in the US, more than our own. And it's that neglect that's gonna see John Key leading our country which I DO NOT WANT! I do want Barrack Obama to win the election, but I think it's almost guaranteed that there's going to be an assassination attempt, successful or not, if he does get in. I'd rather Obama not win, and be safe, then for him to win and be shot dead. Then there's John McCain. That guy is old, and if he dies while in office, then Sarah Palin will be the next president. God bless our souls if that happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Who says capitalism is working? Events of the last couple of months would seem to say otherwise. It seems to me that there is no "pure" perfect system. Probably as in most things we are looking for a system which has the least drawbacks and that is probably a blend of all the sytems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I do want Barrack Obama to win the election, but I think it's almost guaranteed that there's going to be an assassination attempt, successful or not, if he does get in. I'd rather Obama not win, and be safe, then for him to win and be shot dead. Then there's John McCain. That guy is old, and if he dies while in office, then Sarah Palin will be the next president. God bless our souls if that happens... Funny...someone at work said EXACTLY the same thing a couple of months ago. Can I ask why you think it “guaranteed” there will be an assassination attempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Who says capitalism is working? Events of the last couple of months would seem to say otherwise. It seems to me that there is no "pure" perfect system. Probably as in most things we are looking for a system which has the least drawbacks and that is probably a blend of all the sytems. This is a glitch at the moment. There will always be peaks and troughs. Periods where something major happens but history has shown that eventually things will pick up again. Look at the 1979 energy crisis in Iran, which followed the Iranian revolution causing the oil prices to soar, which had a knock-on effect mainly in the US. There was also black Monday in 1989 when the stock market collapsed. I agree that there is no perfect system. The best we can hope for is one where as you said is a combination (may be socialism and capitalism). But it doesn’t matter which one you use because someone will ALWAYS lose out. That’s just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Who says capitalism is working? Events of the last couple of months would seem to say otherwise. It seems to me that there is no "pure" perfect system. Probably as in most things we are looking for a system which has the least drawbacks and that is probably a blend of all the sytems. Exactly. And to say that communism or socialism isn't... Well if you base that on what happened in Soviet in the last century, then that's not really fair, because that was bad leadership that made the system crash. Stalin's "communism" isn't really what communism was intended to be. For christ's sake, the guy was paranoid and unstable. The only Soviet leader who didn't really use communism to his own advantage (which is the weakness of the system) was Mikhail Gorbatsjov, and he ended the Cold War. I'm not saying that Socialism or Communism always works, because I don't believe that, but neither do I believe that capitalism as an option is that much better. And again, it's a lot more than black and white here, it's not either or, although a lot of Republicans seems to think that. I've heard Republicans accuse Obama of being socialist (or in many cases, "socialest") and I can't help thinking that if they do that then not only do they have no clue what Obama actually says; nor do they know the defintion of socialism. It's not like every country in the world is either entirely capitalist, socialist or communist. There are many shades, not just black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Exactly. And to say that communism or socialism isn't... Well if you base that on what happened in Soviet in the last century, then that's not really fair, because that was bad leadership that made the system crash. Stalin's "communism" isn't really what communism was intended to be. For christ's sake, the guy was paranoid and unstable. The only Soviet leader who didn't really use communism to his own advantage (which is the weakness of the system) was Mikhail Gorbatsjov, and he ended the Cold War. I'm not saying that Socialism or Communism always works, because I don't believe that, but neither do I believe that capitalism as an option is that much better. And again, it's a lot more than black and white here, it's not either or, although a lot of Republicans seems to think that. I've heard Republicans accuse Obama of being socialist (or in many cases, "socialest") and I can't help thinking that if they do that then not only do they have no clue what Obama actually says; nor do they know the defintion of socialism. It's not like every country in the world is either entirely capitalist, socialist or communist. There are many shades, not just black and white. 1. Exactly! The communism/socialism was forced. And the USSR along with various other countries did not implement it the way Karl Marx intended. In order for communism/socialism to work everybody would have to want it and we know that’s never going to happen. I certainly wouldn’t want to live in a communist country. 2. The Republicans accusing Obama of being socialist is just the typical “you’re with us or against us attitude”. If you don’t agree with what they are saying then the only possible explanation is you are a left-wing commie. The term moderate doesn’t exist as far as they are concerned. They tend to see everything in black and white. 3. Agreed. I did say previously that what is required is a combination of the two. A free market economy coupled with a decent state-sponsored welfare system. Most of Europe seems to have this but unfortunately it is unlikely to be adopted in the US anytime in the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I couldn't agree more (and btw, phew! I was so worried my post was gonna come across as mean or harsh, which wasn't the intention!). And that's a big part of what I mean by saying that the main problem in the US isn't the politics, but the attitude and the way of thinking. Too many people are too far left or too far right, and there's really no such thing as being moderate in many people's opinion. That's why I think the main issue is to have a president who can bring the people together, and I think Barack Obama is better suited for that. I don't think McCain would do such a bad job either, but again, I'm kinda terrified of Palin... Generally I don't think America needs a the political abuse of the other party's candidates that especially the Republicans are so very good at. I think both Obama and Clinton did a much cleaner campaigning, and will/would do a better job to bring people together. I mean, you now have people from the Bush-administrations, former hardcore Republicans, endorsing Obama/Biden. And hell, Hillary Clinton did a pretty good job too apparently, she even ended up having Ann Coulter endorse her (not that I think that is something any Democrat thinks of as good campaign help... Sort of like that latest SNL skit with Bush endorsing McCain/Palin ). I just loved her response to those news btw, "See, I told you I could bring this country together!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysmoke Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I have to admit the information i get about US elections is like second hand smoke. It sort of drifts across every now and again. I often look up the candidates various speeches to get a clearer view but a lot of that is mainly attacking/defending against another candidate and the views and policies become obscured. (thats not just an attack on america or anything, thats politicians generally) However I was watching the american campaigns the other day and it had a scary resemblance to the x factor with the amount of effort they put into display. Having said that though, from what i have seen and been able to find out I am whole heartedly behind Barack Obama. I think he really could benefit America. In interviews his answers are thought out, he makes sense on a level that is easy to understand. I didn't like him parading his family across the stage like some act (but then again, thats not the real issue i suppose). I liked the fact that he made a point of reminding people who he knew wouldn't vote for him that he is still interested in their opinions and fairly representing them. Not many politicians bother to do that. Putting the token gestures aside for a moment though. What is important is that at the moment i think america has a very negative reputation with the rest of the world and Obama is stirring interest outside of America as well as inside. I know who is elected shouldn't affect me because i live in england but it will, because of the contact the two countries have, and it will affect how america's relations with other countries goes as well. If Obama is elected then America's reputation will change, and i think a lot of countries will respond positively to this. To put someone like McCain in will not change this view at all. Now you might say what does it matter what people think? Well, i really think it matters a lot. It will affect world trade, global communications and hopefully ease the hostility between the east and west. there. so please please please vote for him, because i can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I'd vote for McCain because I'm racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 I'd vote for McCain because I'm racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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