Would the controversial retcons have worked better if the details were changed?

[Jamie!]

On 26/01/2024 at 21:59, adam436 said:

The other big one from the early years would be the Ailsa/Shauna one. Not controversial, but I think the issue was that the dates seemed to be fudged a bit. From memory, Ailsa went to prison as a teenager and served three years, which would have been the late 60s/early 70s, which didn't match Shauna's age. It probably didn't help that Duncan's age had shifted either. I think the disappointing factor in this story was that Judy Nunn left so soon after, so we never really got to see that relationship develop long-term. 

 

Rewatching 1988, it's actually pretty bad. I can't remember when he was supposed to have found out about it (wasn't it a few years after her disappearance?), but Roo really needed her mother during the whole pregnancy story and he came across as a hypocrite when he found out Ailsa didn't tell him about being in prison. And Martha disappearing essentially led the Simpson family to fall apart too, since Morag didn't know where to send the money. 

As I've mentioned, it would have been less insulting had Alf told Ailsa the truth and they both agreed to keep it quiet. Ailsa would understand more than most the need to escape/start a new life. Instead, it's an insult to long-term fans who watched Alf and Ailsa's 12 year marriage onscreen. 

I'm sure it was said somewhere that Alf found out the truth about Martha a little time after he married Ailsa.

[Homeandawayfan.]

Alf said he knew by the time Roo gave birth to Martha Jnr. I know Alf insulted Ailsa in a August 1988 episode during an argument where he said that he may end up with a knife in his back. It was probably around the time he secretly found out about Martha Snr.

[adam436]

I think part of the problem with these storylines is that the show is not introducing any new older characters now, so any "historical stories", for lack of a better term, have to be done with a group of characters who have been with the show forever. 

For example, if we found out Tony Holden's wife was still alive and he knew,/kept it from Lucas and Jack, I doubt viewers would care. The same for if Beth Hunter had a secret son that kidnapped her or if Maggie Astoni had a secret child who was out for revenge for abandoning her It wouldn't be messing with anywhere near as much continuity as it as with characters who have been around for 30+ years. 

I'm not saying the show needs any new older cast, and it certainly isn't likely to introduce anymore, but the longevity of the current cast should also be limiting in terms of these sorts of storylines.

 

[cymbaline]

They didn't have to tie themselves in knots bring in Martha. Wouldn't it have been just as simple to have Alf meet somebody new rather than create something this torturous? You'd still end up with the same end result. This retcon was particularly pointless.  Long-term viewers remember Ailsa and how they were an iconic couple for 12 years. Newer people don't know/don't care who Alf might hook up with. It was a silly retcon and you'd wonder if was it worth it. Belinda Giblin hasn't been on H&A for a long time now.

Edited January 30 by cymbaline

[adam436]

I wonder if Ray and Emily ever questioned the writers on these storylines. Obviously the writers and producers have the final say, but the long-term actors would know their characters' histories far better than the writers.

I remember reading that Ray requested Belinda Giblin be cast as Martha, so perhaps that was a sweetener to get Ray on board with it. He also spoke out over the tone of the show during thr Braxton years, so I could see him definitely approaching the producers again over this blatent rewriting of history.

Edited January 30 by adam436

[Homeandawayfan.]

In my head canon I think Alf may have told Ailsa offscreen and they agreed to keep it secret, or when Alf rung up Ailsa in Singapore begging her to come home was when he just got the letter from Martha.

Neighbours also did the nasty retcons with the Ramsay and Tanaka families, and the Dee retcon.

[adam436]

6 hours ago, Homeandawayfan. said:

In my head canon I think Alf may have told Ailsa offscreen and they agreed to keep it secret, or when Alf rung up Ailsa in Singapore begging her to come home was when he just got the letter from Martha.

Having just finished the 1988 season, I'm thinking Alf would have learned about Martha at the same time he found out about Bobby and Morag. Given everything that played out with Roo, you would hope it was after the pregnancy and adoption though. 

  

6 hours ago, Homeandawayfan. said:

Neighbours also did the nasty retcons with the Ramsay and Tanaka families, and the Dee retcon.

The Neighbours ones are equally as bad. I actually find the Tanaka one the least offensive of the three of those because no character was ruined (Paul was already a womaniser!), aside from the fact they used existing footage of Paul and Jim as flashbacks. It was unnecessary though and there would have been easier ways to give Paul additional offspring. 

The Dee one was just ridiculous, because it rewrote her entire final episode from someone rescuing Dee from the accident without being noticed, through to the car following them when they were leaving for their honeymoon. The whole Andrea complication just added to the ridiculousness. Given it was spread out into multiple "chapters" over a number of a years, I suspect the whole conclusion was changed, but I have no proof of that. 

 

 

 

[Homeandawayfan.]

It does trash the histories of the shows a bit with these retcons such as Martha Stewart, Ramsay, Dee, Tanaka, Irene Roberts etc.

[adam436]

5 hours ago, Homeandawayfan. said:

It does trash the histories of the shows a bit with these retcons such as Martha Stewart, Ramsay, Dee, Tanaka, Irene Roberts etc.

I honestly wasn't that offended by the Irene one. What irked me more was that they created a son for her, only to make him a psychopath who raped Billie and kidnapped Irene. I guess if they wanted long-term family for Irene though, there is already three existing children.

Maybe the producers thought that Luc and those involved would be around for years to come and we'd have a scenario of Billie, Irene and Luc being a family. Who knows? 

The Dee one on Neighbours was the worst because it essentially changed the events we actually saw on screen. There were other ways around Dee surviving the crash without the convoluted witness protection scenario we got.

[CaptainHulk]

On 31/01/2024 at 12:31, Homeandawayfan. said:

In my head canon I think Alf may have told Ailsa offscreen and they agreed to keep it secret, or when Alf rung up Ailsa in Singapore begging her to come home was when he just got the letter from Martha.

Neighbours also did the nasty retcons with the Ramsay and Tanaka families, and the Dee retcon.

The Dee retcon was just to appease dudes whose crushes on her never went away and it was expense of Eve/Sonya.  

The Tanaka thing was needless/mishandled, making Paul look like well... not very good, Kim coming off "easy" and giving the supposed father a "race lift" and making Marcia not look very good either (Kim not being Neil's but from a fumble with a bloke who happened to be Japanese)

However, that's made almost tolerable with Takaya being solid as David and Tim being a decent Leo and the former will be missed.

Edited February 4 by CaptainHulk