adam436

Agreed. I'm thinking more the principals from mid 2000s onwards: Sally, Brad, Bianca, Sophie etc. Don Fisher, Barry Hyde, Murray Bartlett and all the temporary ones were convincing

It's the same with the school staff too! Pretty much all the principals have seemed far too young and unconvincing for the role except for Barry Hyde, Maggie Astoni and Murray Bartlett, the latter was only a guest character. The same could be said for the senior doctors and police officers too.

From what we know in 2023, some other musings I had watching 1988 season: Lance, Roo and Bobby are all cousins, yet none of them know it yet. Alf hiding Martha being alive is a far bigger secret than Ailsa being in prison. Alf commented to Ailsa that it's a shame she never had kids. Little does he know that she had already given birth to Shauna. Sally's imaginary friend is her brother. Surely her having a brother would have been on record somewhere and Tom and Pippa would have known a brother existed. Lance and Martin wanted Ailsa's autograph because they'd never met a killer before. Many regulars in the last 10 years or so have now been killers

As I've been rewatching on 7Plus, I've been googling the actors to see what they did post H&A, and was surprised to learn Vanessa Downing was only 29 when the series began. The character was clearly meant to be older though, given she and Tom had fostered Frank 10 years earlier and the original actress, who was much closer in age to what Pippa was meant to be, pulled out at the last minute.

I feel like it was meant to be long-term, but Kate Ritchie leaving put an end to that plan. I imagine the writers wanted to give Sally "her own exit" rather than have her sail off into the sunset with Brad, so he was written out in ample time to give Sally her nostalgic exit without it being tainted by the end of her relationship with Brad. Pippa got herself a new husband within a year of Tom dying, so I figured had Sally stuck around, he was always going to be the next Mr Sally Fletcher.

Alf threatening to give Roo "a hiding" after her vendetta against Ailsa came to a head. I know they did the domestic storyline around the same time with the Barlows, but it felt different coming from Alf given he was a main character.

I guess I feel it's gone too far in the other direction now. When it was a soap for teenagers, there was still a good mix of teenagers, twenty something and older characters, even though the balance was skewed toward teenagers. There are still good number of older characters, but they are all well established. If one of the six stalwarts decided to quit, I can't see the producers rushing in a new character to replace them. I think that's a good point. If ratings and awards is informing the decisions, nothing will change any time soon.

I don't think the producers have ever publicly commented on the change in the direction (it's just felt like a gradual transition over time!), but I do wonder what the reasoning behind the shift is? If the current audience is reflected in the cast make-up (i.e. predominately 20somethings), then where do the producers see H&A in 10 years time? Will it become a show about people in their thirties? I understand that audiences change and that the demographic of 20-30 years are generally no longer watching Free-to-air TV, but the show does need a shake up. I've accepted that H&A will never be a predominantly teenage soap again, but the stories are becoming quite repetitive now. It's all about Lyrik or the relationship dramas of the characters who are coupled off. I imagine there would be a share of the audience who would probably have teenage children, and might be able to relate to those storylines/characters through their own children. There are so many characters in their twenties and early thirties now that the show could easily lose 3-4 of them (I wouldn't even care who, since I don't really like any of them except for Mali and Mackenzie!), and replace them with teenagers without losing too much focus on the older group. The producers wouldn't even have to introduce parents for those teenagers, when you have Leah and Justin, Roo, Irene, John and Marilyn who could take them in, or the writers could invent a teenage sibling for an existing character. I can only speak for Neighbours and Hollyoaks, but other soaps manage to have a wider spread of ages.

Alf's disapproval of Roo's Asian boyfriend. The story involving Matt, Adam and their housemate played by Suzi Dougherty.

Do we think Pippa was as "sacred" once Debra Lawrence took over the role? Debra is definitely more iconic to the average H&A viewer (I personally prefer Vanessa, but generally speaking she's longer-running and more recognisable to the average viewer), but when we talk about long-running original characters, I really only consider Alf, Ailsa, Don and Sally. It's hard to imagine Pippa being axed, because she was very much the show's linchpin in those early days, but would there have been a huge controversy had she been axed in 1996 along with Michael or in 1998 instead of Debra leaving of her own accord or in 2000 when the Sutherlands took over the caravan park? I feel like it definitely would have been moreso had we had the same actress playing the part from day one, but given we know Lynne McGranger was almost axed after 10 years as Irene, who's to say that Debra might have stayed too long as Pippa.

I never knew that? Do you remember where that was? Did something change behind the scenes in 2004? They'd married off Rhys and Beth, with what I assume was a long-term plan to keep Rhys and have the Hunters replace the departing Sutherland family members, then Rhys was written out a few months later and presumably the pregnancy was dropped at that point too. You have to wonder why they didn't write out Beth and most of the remaining Hunters at that point too. Matilda and Henry were not popular in her first year, Kit was already dropped from the regular cast and Scott wasn't living in the family home.

Hayley moved out to "The Palace" with Noah, Dani and Josh around that time and Nick just would have been palmed off onto Sally and Flynn, Leah, Alf or whichever household needed topping up at the time. Back to the original question, I don't think Pippa would have been axed and it's more likely Irene would have lasted so long. Irene has clearly lasted longer now, but at the time Pippa had a stronger history and ties in the show. Given Irene stepped up into both Pippa's job at the school and as the role as the primary foster mum, one of them would have eventually had to give. The Nash family came in to replace Pippa, so maybe it would have happened then, or maybe it would have happened in 2000 when the show had a bit of an overhaul. Sh

I recall reading somewhere that Lynn was considered too young for the teen's older storylines and too young for Sally's storyline, which I find odd as I thought she was the same age as Steven? I agree - I'd say Lance, Floss and Neville were very one-dimensional and were weaker than her.

Agreed. But I think she's spanned across multiple eras, so she's someone that fans of the current show and fans of the late 90s/early 2000s era, when she was at her peak, can vote for. I think Alf will win for that reason. Dean and Ziggy are popular, but only fans watching post 2017 will know them. There are many exclusively Early Years fans who would have voted. I am curious to know how close the points will be though

I definitely wouldn't call Duncan a popular character by any stretch of the imagination. Even when he was a regular in 1998-2001, he wasn't really popular. Most of the "bad boys" had at least some redeeming qualities, but I really can't find any with the Duncan. He was definitely redeemed in his 2016 stint, but that appearance is so short-lived that I doubt many people would even remember that. It's definitely Brendan McKensy that defined the role. We just got our answer, and from some of the other displacements, I am really not surprised. That's pretty much my predictions too. The genuine surprise for me is Cash! I would not have thought him to be more popular than some of the current regulars like Mackenzie or Justin, but there you have it. I still think this year's winner will be Alf, but with some of the displacements this time, we can't even be certain of that anymore. Leah's popularity seems to go up and down, Irene hasn't really done anything significant in years and I imagine Marilyn will have probably lost a few votes after the Heather story. It has been some years since Brax was on the show, so I can't see him winning. I'm genuinely surprised he will (most likely!) be the only past character to secure a top 10 spot. If a character was to win that wasn't one of the "Big Four", my money would be on Dean. He seems more popular than Ziggy (though I guess this poll will prove or disprove that!) and Cash, Felicity and Tane appear seem quite divisive, at least on this forum anyway.

I think that's it. Usually new characters like Bree, Eden, Remi, Kirby, Xander and Rose would appear in the lower ends of the poll due to how new they are and the fact they've not exactly set the world on fire, so to see them in the same update as the legends, and some characters like Felicity, Cash, Tane and Nikau poll higher than them, is quite the shock. In the past, the top 20 have generally been a mix of the "poster boy/girl" for the day (for lack of a better word, and that's no disrespect to what they brought/bring to the show) and mainstay characters both past and present. The current cast always get at least some points in these polls, it's just never really been so many. With the exception of three former characters (I could name my predictions, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone), the remaining 17 are all current characters or last appeared within six months. Having said that, it would seem all the original regular cast except for Neville McPhee and Lynn Davenport appeared in the poll. Unless they somehow randomly make the top 20 or the other original character not seen yet (other than Alf!) does not make the cut, both of which seem unlikely.

I have worked out who the top 20 are based on the fact that every regular from the 2022 season appears on the list. 15 of the 20 characters are current characters, and of the remaining 5, 2 of them last appeared in 2022. This must be the first time that current characters have dominated the top 10-15 and icons/legends like Pippa, Morag, Bobby and Fisher have been pushed out.

With nearly all the current regular cast appearing in the top 40, I really can't see Don appearing in the top ten this year. I will gladly be proved wrong though. If it's the character I suspect, I am going to say somewhere close to the 1000 mark. We had over 2000 votes and I could see over a quarter ranking this character somewhere in their list. The number of points will escalate quick the closer we get to the top too. Donald is an incredibly complex character and Norman played the role with such honesty and emotion. I loved the many facets of his character - the vulnerable side when three of his children died or when he was rejected by Pippa and Judith, the lighter side during his marriage to Marilyn, the authoritarian side in his role as principal and finally his warmth in his relationships with Bobby, Angel and Sam. Donald's departure in 2003 left a huge hole in H&A both at the school (when you consider some of his successors as principal!) and the wider cast, as I don't think we have had such a complex character, or even a greater actor as Norman, since.

I'm not really. He was definitely the least memorable of the teens in that mid-90s peak and it has been many years since he last appeared either in real time or via the Early Years reruns, so has probably faded from people's memories in comparison to the others. When you factor in the number of new characters who must have stolen votes from other characters. I guess the fact it is open to the public I agree! Especially when you consider most of the newcomers from 2021 and 2022 have not been overly well-recieved on this forum. At best, there is certainly divided opinion to the extent I would have expected to have seen many of them already. Of my choices - 3 of 5 votes have appeared (Stacey Macklin, Edward Dunglass, Joey Rainbow) have already appeared and generally always sit in the lower ends of these polls anyway, and the other two have legendary status (Donald Fisher and Morag Bellingham), so I don't expect to see them until we get to the top end of the poll.

I'm not sure if it had been officially confirmed, but I was always under the impression Sharyn's contract was not renewed. It's been mentioned in this thread that Carly had sort of run her course and didn't really fit into the post Tom/Pippa#1 era, so had she stayed and it's really hard to see where the character had gone had she stayed without Ben. The options would have been: recast Ben, which would have been too soon after Pippa (though at least Ben was a relatively supporting character in comparison!). Given the writers did very little with them after they married, it's hard to imagine that changing much had Ben and Carly stayed with a new actor as Ben. split up Ben and Carly, which would have been a second short-lived failed "young marriage" in the same family after Frank and Bobby. or kill Ben off, which having Carly a widow so soon after Pippa might have felt too much for 1991 H&A. Pippa and Angel did become widows in the space of a few weeks in 1996, but that was a darker period for the show compared to five years earlier. The show struggled to write for characters in their twenties back then (a far cry from 2022!) and we already Bobby and Marilyn well-established in that age bracket and I suspect more popular than Carly by that point. I guess she probably would not have had Lucinda Croft and Carly would have taken on those storylines, but I can't imagine something like the Nick/Ryan love triangle would have done Carly any favours.

That's a shame that he made you switch off. He definitely didn't have the complexity that Donald had, but he was far more rounded and likable than the patriarch figures than Michael (in my opinion, anyway!) and the ones that came after him like Rhys Sutherland and Tony Holden. Rhys felt like a caricature of an overprotective dad and I just found Tony to be so dull as a character. I often wonder where things went wrong with the Nash family - they were introduced as a central new family following Pippa's exit with the aim of instilling them in Summer Bay House. The latter took well over a year and the decision was even made to recast Natalie rather than write her out, which implies there was definitely a long-term plan for them that didn't come to fruition.

I couldn't stand Matt to be honest. I am not sure if it was because Greg Benson seemed like a weak actor or the fact Matt had zero personality and pretty much did nothing for three years. Maybe marrying Carly and therefore becoming part of the extended Fletcher family was just what he needed. From a writers perspective, I wonder why it was so rushed. Did they have any major storylines after they married or did they just sit in the background with no development? 1990 was a very transitional year with the change of Pippa, the number of cast exits in the first half of the year and what felt like a "sexier tone" (for lack of a better word), so maybe Carly just got lost in all that. From what I understand, Julian McMahon didn't want to stay longer than a year, so if the producers knew that, a wedding/exit combo (in a similar vein to Tori and Christian) would have made more sense to me.

Nathan Roberts and his wife (I think she was a nurse?) have also been away long enough to be head of a central new family unit too if they needed one. I disagree about John and Marilyn. They need to reunite. But it would need to be a slowburn/subtle reunion. If they suddenly reunited in the next episode, it would seem forced.

I'd agree with that. There was very much a "changing of the guard" in early 1990 with Tom, Pippa #1 and a number of supporting characters and Michael and Pippa#2 now leading the show. Carly and Steven didn't transition well into that new era, in the same way that Bobby and Sally did. Perhaps because Bobby had Fisher and the Diner, whereas Steven and Carly were very much tied to Tom and Pippa. Sally was still young enough that the transition was seamless. Part of me does wonder if the initial long-term plan for Carly was for her and Ben to become foster parents in much the same way Bobby and Sally eventually did, but the problem was that Julian McMahon quit sooner than expected.

I didn't enjoy him watching the show the first time around (I was about 9 or 10), but the second time around (when I was in my late twenties), I found him more likable. I am not sure why though, as there wasn't an awful lot to like about the character. I didn't like his relationship with Stacey, his backstory (the alcoholism and his rich family!) or the way he constantly challenged Donald Fisher. He wasn't my favourite character by any stretch, but I didn't dislike him in the same way I disliked other characters in the late 80s/early 90s period.