Best bitch

[ste]

Ugh where do I start. The Jesse thing didn't happen till months after her arrival. Irene was nasty to Josie from the word go. Almost everything else you've said could be just as easily disproved, if i had the energy.

Oh, but I will say this. Josie had every right to apply to be Tasha's gardian. Yes, Irene wouldn't be happy about it. So are you suggesting that Josie shouldn't have done it just because of that? Nobody should do anything unless the great and wonderful Irene will be happy about it? I hardly see this as a reason to justify Irene's treatment of the woman.

[yannick]

I agree with Ste on this.

first of all she arrives and says she is going to apply for custody of Tasha - what a good move - that is hardly going to endear her to Irene.

Can you blame Josie for wanting custody? She hasn't got much family anymore, and she and Tasha got on really well, so why shouldn't she try.. Irene is not the only person that can look after a teenager you know.

From the moment she arrived in the bay Josie tried to fit in. But no, Irene never wanted to give her a change.

And all these others things you said happened when Josie was in the bay for quite a while.

Secondly she screws up Jesse's life.

Yes, Josie made a mistake, and she also suffered from it. Who doesn't make mistakes? Irene made a few big ones in the past, but she seems to forget about that when she starts judging people

Thirdly - she - and everyone else in SB - thinks Josie is working wth Brett to screw the town

Think is the right word here. Her final intentions show again that Josie really cares about the bay.

Fourthly she screwed things up for Scott and Hayley. There were a few other things along the way, but I can't recall them all.

No, Josie didn't. But Scott did. It just happened, she was happy that there was someone who actually cared about her.

[Hils]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.

I did not seek to justify Irene's behaviour but to explain it in terms of her character. What I take issue with is the contention that Irene is a "bitch" in the same way that Angie, Diana and Amanda are. Irene is not perfect, far from it, but that does not mean that she is a bitch. She can be bitchy - can't we all- that is not the same thing at all. She does not always go about things in a rational fashion, and at times she is like a bull in a china shop, but essentially she cares.

Whilst I do agree that Iren was hard on Josie, I disagree that Irene didn''t ever give Josie a chance because there were several months last year where they got on quite well.

It's the label bitch I take issue with, not the criticsm of her actions - I think those criticisms are perfectly valid. As I said before, a bitch is mean and spiteful for the sake of it and derives pleasure from it. I don't think Irene does that. She is a flawed human being but neither inate malice nor spitefulness are one of those flaws IMO.

[Loz]

I hadn't particularly thought of Irene as a bitch until I read this thread, but now I come to think about it... yeah, absolutely. She took against Josie because (a) she looks a lot like Angie and (b) she wanted to apply for custody of Tasha... So basically because she was prejudiced about her looks and because she thought she might lose Tasha's affection. Bitchy.

Remember how she insulted Josie at the concert for Noah? When someone commented that Josie's dress wouldn't have come cheap, Irene replied 'Unlike it's owner'.

IMO, it all comes down to whether we're 'meant' to think a character is a bitch or not. When Irene makes that comment about Josie, the other characters laugh good naturedly. Now imagine it's Amanda saying it... she'd get disapproving looks, and we'd be meant to think 'oooh, the bitch'.

It's a similar situation to 'nice' Beth not liking Amanda, imo. Beth initially thinks Amanda is bad - she doesn't have proof, but Beth is 'good' so she must be 'right'. In reality, this would be a sign she's being judgemental and prejudiced against a pretty face. When Josie first came into H&A, we got a similar thing with Irene - Irene's suspicious, *we're* meant to be suspicious, so it's not Irene being 'bitchy', it's her being 'right'. I liked how this was twisted so that before last year's finale, we were shown how neither was fully right or wrong, they just had opposing positions. But imo, this year the Irene/Josie thing reverted to being a simplified feud and yep, Irene was bitchy. Did Irene treat Natalie Nash like crapola when she cheated on her 'friend' Joel? Nope. Did she disown Hayley for whoring her way around the bay? No sir. So she just limits her judgements to selected characters, jumping on their mistakes as evidence she was right about not liking them all along. Bitch-y. Irene, you've been rumbled.

[ste]

Exactly, F'eck. I think the main reason that most characters (and people on this board) don't realise Irene is a bitch is because in general she is a likeable, nice little woman. Apart from the Josie hate, I like her a lot. But she can be very, very bitchy.

Generally, we are supposed to empathise with Irene and see the show from her point of view, in a way. If Irene doesn't trust someone, in turn *we* are not supposed to trust them. And this is the reason most people have probably turned a blind eye to, or not noticed, her total bigoted bullying.

Hils: I don't remember every saying that Irene was a bitch the same way that Angie, Diana, Amanda are. All I said was that as far as Josie is concerned, Irene's a bitch, and I gave my reasons for it.

In general I agree with you that Irene is not spiteful and doesn't act out of malice, but in the case of Josie I think she does. She calls her "Madam" all the time - a nod towards her ex-profession, and is always making remarks about Josie behind her back, like the one F'eck mentioned. This is deliberate isolation and targetting of one person. Bullying.

It was a bit extreme of me to say Irene is the *biggest* bitch. I don't really think she is, there are others far more deserving of that award. But since Josie is by far my favourite character, I've really noticed the way Irene treats her, probably more than your average viewer, and yeah, as far as my Josie fandom goes, Irene is a bitch! But otherwise, she's not

[-Ben-]

Irene a bitch? Totally. Her bitchy comments, which she says out of spite makes her a bitch. You don't just have to be manipulative, scheming or malicious to be a bitch. Just being catty will earn you that title.

And Irene is definitely catty and judgmental. Irene hasn't always been this way. It's more-so this season than any other that Irene has shown this side. There's been this aggressiveness about her, jumping down Colleen's throat for, really no reason at all and appearing rude, instead of it seeming justified (which it normally is with Colleen.)

Then there's her treatment of Josie, something which no one should have to put up with. Irene didn't like the look of Josie 'cause she's identical to Angie. Because of this, Irene wrote Josie off before she'd even gotten to know her. But then they decided that it was a personality clash, fine, you can't get on with everyone. But then any chance Irene got to insult Josie with a catty comment, she took. The personality clash went out the window and it became all about Irene being "right."

Jesse's sham wedding (which Irene never attended) gave Irene more ammunition to use against Josie. Josie had a one night stand, meaning she had to be run outa town. Hayley had a one night stand *and* gets pregnant *and* had no clue who the daddy was, meaning she gets to stay in town. It was never about Jesse's pain, it was all about proving that she'd been right about Josie from the get go.

And speaking of Jesse, he and Irene were supposed to be pretty close, yet when he needed his friends, where was she? Irene a recovering alcoholic should've had some idea of why Jesse had started drinking, in fact she didn't even try to help him. When it came to Jesse accidently hitting Hayley, Irene took the judgmental route and jumped on the Jesse bashing bandwagon, even though she's known the guy for years and shared the beach house with him, she chose to ignore their history and instead went with the judgmental comments of, "He's a rotten mongrel" and the like.

And lets not forget her cattiness towards Beth, when she thought she was having an affair with Barry.

Irene has favourites, and if your not one of them, then you'd better watch out.

[Jay Preston]

Wow, I never thought of Irene this way, but I'm totally convinced. I quite like Irene, but she has been a bitch. Which is not a problem. Makes me like her more.

But I think Beth is a worse bitch than Irene. When it comes to her children. Especially Scott - it's time to cut the umbillical chord. She can manipulate with the best of them, plus she's been less than supportive of her alcoholic daughter in the past. I truly believe that Beth only has herself to blame for Amanda targeting her family, if she hadn't been a bitch to her, Amanda wouldn't have been (as much of) a bitch back. Beth's attacks on Amanda started with nothing less than an instinct, she had no proof for any of it. Not to mention the way she carried on about her mid-20s son's relationship. The worst thing about Beth is that you just know she thinks she's a great mother. And she ain't.

But neither Beth nor Irene stand out as bitches that will go down in history.

But superbitches - Morag, Angie and Diana come to mind. For obvious reasons.

Other honourable bitches - Roo, and we should probably mention Bobby, since she herself could also be a bit bitchy. Dani Minogue's character was a bitch wasn't she?

I think Home and Away should try for some younger bitches.

[chatter box]

And lets not forget her cattiness towards Beth, when she thought she was having an affair with Barry.

Irene NEVER thought they were having an affair. What she was upset and insecue about wha the fct that Barry kept forgetting their arrangements and was still thinking like a single guy. That is not the same thing at all. Beth was far more "bitchy" about all this than Irene ever was.

Steps back....LOL...how on earth did we get into this?

The question is who was the BEST BITCH over the years, not whch characters can be bitchy. There is not ONE single character who does not make bitchy remarks. Josie is very good at it, so is Matilda. Sallly came out with some classics when Josie arrived...partiularly in realtion to Josies history in "hopitality"...LOL...so do we alos include Sally, Morag, Amanda, Josie, Matilda, Cassie, Martha, Colleen, Ailsa, Shelley, Beth, Shannon, Chloe, Selina etc...and every other female character over the years because they have made bitchy comments?

I quite like Irene, but she has been a bitch. Which is not a problem. Makes me like her more.

Quite rightt JP. I agree. Pefect people always worry me.

So to return to who is the BEST bitch, I'd say Angie and Diana. Angie was a sociopath but Diana wasn't and was just plain mean and nasty for the sake of it, so I suppose Diana was the bitchier of the two in that sense.

[Hanna]

Sarah

[soulbeauty]

Ange has to be the biggest bitch for me.