ITV's Cut Closing titles

[nenehcherry2]

Hey All,

Hoping everyone had a wonderful festive period. A somewhat bizarre post from me but wondered if anyone could add some colour to this...

Those of us in the UK are fully aware of the butchering that ITV did to the closing credits from very early 1994. Every few years or so, a post would pop up on here from other users asking when this happened. Well, I found some articles from the British Newspaper Archive in December 1993 implying that the newly formed ITV Network Centre were planning to cut the length of titles from the New Year (ie January 1994) on all shows down to 30 seconds max. I'll snip the image of those articles and share next week. So mystery solved. Perhaps...

Reason for this post? Well, I have VERY faint and vague recollections of an "intermediate" version of the cut closing titles which I think may have lasted a few weeks (i.e. not cut to 5 seconds, as they were after this, but perhaps 20-30 seconds long; enough to flash a few "credits", if you pardon the pun). I have Bobby's death recorded on tape from 25th Feb and they're definitely down to 5 seconds by then (at least on Central), so this "intermediate" version would have been VERY short lived IF it DID exist at all; given the age that I was at the time, childhood amnesia may well have kicked in and very likely created a false memory. Or has it?!

Does anyone else in the UK remember (or can even confirm the existence of) a "phase 1" version of the cut closing titles? A bit of a stretch after 29 years, granted! But thought I'd ask...

 

[James Martin]

Nope, no recollection of this and I was an avid viewer at that time - again in the Central region.

There's one exception to the rule, and that's the episode after baby Dale died, aired on ITV November 1993.  As has been well documented, European football meant the teatime showing was not aired that day.  The following episode began with an very long recap which went on for a good three minutes or so (this wasn't on the 7TWO broadcast more recently, so was clearly an ITV edit.) However, the episode ended with the credits starting on the final "You know we belong together" - they'd clearly been cut off in order to shoehorn in an extended recap explaining what teatime viewers had missed.

LWT would occasionally fade the credits out early to an "LWT Presentation" slide.  But that's the only other messing with the credits I recall until the 5s edits from 1994-2000.

I remember the closing credits cut being introduced whilst watching a lunchtime showing, but I also saw the boat accident at lunchtime - which means it must have aired in the UK during February half term week.  So I'm pretty sure the cut had only just come in by then, and started the Monday the week the accident aired.

[nenehcherry2]

On 12/01/2023 at 02:40, James Martin said:

Nope, no recollection of this and I was an avid viewer at that time - again in the Central region.

There's one exception to the rule, and that's the episode after baby Dale died, aired on ITV November 1993.  As has been well documented, European football meant the teatime showing was not aired that day.  The following episode began with an very long recap which went on for a good three minutes or so (this wasn't on the 7TWO broadcast more recently, so was clearly an ITV edit.) However, the episode ended with the credits starting on the final "You know we belong together" - they'd clearly been cut off in order to shoehorn in an extended recap explaining what teatime viewers had missed.

LWT would occasionally fade the credits out early to an "LWT Presentation" slide.  But that's the only other messing with the credits I recall until the 5s edits from 1994-2000.

I remember the closing credits cut being introduced whilst watching a lunchtime showing, but I also saw the boat accident at lunchtime - which means it must have aired in the UK during February half term week.  So I'm pretty sure the cut had only just come in by then, and started the Monday the week the accident aired.

Really appreciate this response, James. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to this one with your own memories! You're about 3 years older than myself, so a more trustworthy recollection of facts. 

This is all coming together now; the "intermediate" credit that I've always remembered seeing as a six year old was a simple "you know we belong together" and a flash of a Director credit. Thus, it's highly likely that I saw that one-off version that aired after Dale's death. Whilst I don't directly remember the said storyline, I'd always remembered Pippa having a baby around that time (which turned out to have been Dale) and was watching the show (in the way that a six year old would) EVERY evening (hence why I'd always remembered random things in detail like the credit shot of Fin & Sal swapping hats and Bobby pulling a boat ten times the size of herself!).

I've always known (without knowing how) that the credits went down to 5 seconds just before Bobby's death aired. So your suggested date ties in perfectly. It was indeed also half-term where I lived (Corby, Northamptonshire) during the week that the boat accident aired (in fact, episode 1299 aired on my birthday, Friday 18th Feb; my friends and I were imitating Michael's resuscitation on the beach, the said memory was verified by my Mother recently!). We picked up both Anglia & Central, often alternating between the two with no preference. Do you think it's possible that the 5s cut version first aired on the week commencing 3rd January 94 (the Monday was a bank holiday)? Whilst not technically half-term, it would still have been the Christmas holidays for most of us.

I'll try to find a way of sharing screen shots of the articles I found on BNA which talk about the new ITV Network Centre rules on credits being no more than 30 seconds in duration (which led to Equity union strike threats in the UK), following some research on viewer attention spans; I can't share these as hyperlinks as would redirect you all to their login page. Said articles were published in November & December 1993, implying that the credits of ITV shows would be reduced in length as such "from the New Year". 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by nenehcherry2

[CaptainHulk]

Ooooh ooooh ooh... ooooh

Yeah, remember that mess.

It was like once every few hundred eps they'd have the full playout

[nenehcherry2]

On 14/01/2023 at 15:00, nenehcherry2 said:

I'll try to find a way of sharing screen shots of the articles I found on BNA which talk about the new ITV Network Centre rules on credits being no more than 30 seconds in duration (which led to Equity union strike threats in the UK), following some research on viewer attention spans; I can't share these as hyperlinks as would redirect you all to their login page. Said articles were published in November & December 1993, implying that the credits of ITV shows would be reduced in length as such "from the New Year". 

 

Since this site (rather annoyingly) does not allow one to simply paste a snipped image (and because the URLs are locked to British Newspaper Archive subscribers), I've gone to the trouble of transcribing the six said articles! One of the articles is very lengthy & general so I've highlighted the most relevant quote.

ARTICLE ONE: HEADLINE: FURY AS ITV PLANS TO TIGHTEN END CREDITS (from "The Stage", 25th November 1993)

"Actors and technicians were this week livid about new plans from ITV to tighten end credits on programmes, which the commercial network claims are neces sary to stop viewers 'channel-hopping.' In new guidelines published by the ITV Network Centre, producers are told to reduce end credits on programmes less than 60 minutes long to 20 seconds although there is an "absolute maximum" of 30 seconds. For programmes of 60 minutes and over, there is a maximum time of 45 seconds. The rules demand that the production company's logo and the appointed compliance company's logo are included in this end credit time. The Network Centre claims that many programmes have exceeded the unofficial previous guideline of 30 sec onds, and has compiled research indicating that ITV loses far more viewers as credits roll than at any other time. 1 1 V's plans to reduce end credits will come as a blow to performers and also to technicians, who argue that they rely on visual credits at the end of pro grammes for their livelihood. Equity general secretary Ian McGarry, who is understood to have approached the Independent Television Commission with the union's grievances, told The Stage and Television Today. "If a television com pany has gone to the expense of hiring several major stars, why limit the num ber of credits they give them? "Equity will resist strongly attempts by any broadcaster to cut back on cred its. In terms of getting work, actors live or die by end credits." Anne Rawcliffe-King, senior officer of BECTU's ITV section, said her union supported Equity's argument, adding: "This is a short-sighted move which could easily backfire people could start claiming they have worked on any thing." Richard Emery, director of market strategy at the ITV Network Centre, said it would be up to individual pro ducers to decide whether to cut names off the end credits or to roll them more quickly. He acknowledged that a "let-down period" was necessary for viewers, in particular on programmes in which they had been intensely involved, but pointed out: "We are losing the majority of our audience into commercial breaks during end credits and that has an impact on advertising revenue and consequently the amount of money we have to spend on programmes." Belfast-based ITV contractor Ulster Television has already sparked a row over credits earlier this year when it cut all names off the end of regional pro ductions, branding them simply "A LTV programme." And both Equity and BECTU have protested at plans recently revealed by the BBC to cut down on the amount of time given to end credits".

ARTICLE TWO: "EVERY SECOND COUNTS IN CREDITS PROTEST" (also from "The Stage", 16th December 1993)

Actors and independent producers are to protest at new specifications on end credits for programmes issued this week by the ITV Network Centre. The rules require producers to ensure that end credits for pro grammes less than 60 minutes do not last longer than 30 seconds, with 45 seconds the maximum for shows of 60 minutes and over. They also stipulate that credits should run "at a reason able and readable speed." On drama and situation comedy programmes, opening credits may only include five actors, the writer, series or programme deviser, producer and director. On entertainment pro grammes, opening credits are restrict ed to the names of featured stars and writers. The production company's logo and the ITV compliance company's logo are to be included in the end credit time, and both must be static, rather than animated. The Network Centre claims: "The aim of ITV's credit rules is to give proper recognition on screen to those who make a substantial creative and technical contribution to programmes, while at the same time keeping the overall length of credits to sensible lev els." But the guidelines now make it inevitable that producers will have to cut down the number of names they can fit in at the end of a programme particularly as the Network Centre has specified the speed at which they should run. Martin Brown, Equity's assistant secretary, communications, told The Stage and Television Today: "The length of a show is irrelevant to how many credits should be featured at the end. If it is a four-hander, 30 seconds is fine, but what about a drama with a large cast? "We will be taking this issue up as part of negotiations with all broadcast ers and will be demanding the con tractual right for all performers to be credited. We cannot do it straight away but most of our agreements are now reviewed annually, so we will be able to address it in the next year." Independents are angry because they argue animated credits at the end of programmes give them a higher profile. John Woodward, chief executive of trade association the Producers Alliance for Cinema and Television, said: "This situation is ridiculous and we will be taking it up with the ITV Network Centre. "It is particularly silly given that ITV is contractually bound to show animated end credits for many shows it acquires from the US." ITV decided to cut down on end credits after research revealed that many viewers started 'channel-hop ping' while they ran.

ARTICLE THREE: "CREDIT CONTROL COULDN'T COME SOONER ENOUGH" (The Stage, 2nd December 1993)

SIR 'Fury' as ITV plans to tighten end credits? I think not. If there is one topic upon which the entire population of the world is agreed, it is the interminable length of credit titles. Nobody, save the most socially inadequate, anorak-clad buff, reads them. Throughout the golden age of television, the credits of even the most lavish historical drama were limited to the names of the director and designer. At no point did any viewer feel deprived by the anonymity of the assistant floor man ager. Perhaps, now that television has led the way in curtailing this ritualistic roll call of people who are just doing their jobs, the film industry will follow suit. Once it was the National Anthem that cleared the cinema in seconds. Now it is the end credits, which roll on and on and on, purely for the benefit of the projectionist. By the time the efforts of the stuntmen and stand-ins have been acknowledged, most of the audience is driving out of the car park. ITV has called a halt just as we're dangerously close to being provided with the name of the weather forecaster's tailor, not an uncommon credit in the US, I might add.

ARTICLE FOUR: "IT'S A CREDIT GOODBYE TO... WHAT'S HER NAME?" (The Stage, 16th December 1993)

As a freelance writer not working within the television industry but sometimes writing about television and films and, as a viewer interested in knowing who is playing what part, I rind the ITV Network's regulations about restricting credits to 20 seconds very frustrating. Either it will mean that the credits have to be speeded up to such a speed as to be unreadable which will render them pointless, or a number of names, even within the cast, will have to be chopped off, which is very frustrating if I want to know if a character actor or actress at the lower end of the cast is who i think they are. The names that will remain on the credits, ironically, arc most likely to be those whom we all already know for certain for they are the ones at the top of the cast list. They are also the ones that we will be able to find in the listings magazines, because in the past two and a half years they have had to chop away at the bottom end too. Ironically, the names that will dis appear from the credits if the 20 second cast list is imposed and who have already sometimes lavished from the listings magazines are those character players who have us asking, "What's his name?" or "What's her name?" 

ARTICLE FIVE: "STRIKE FREE IN 93' - BUT IS ALL WELL?" (The Stage, 6th January 1994)

MICHAEL KAVANAGH reviews last year's peaceful industrial relations record and asks if the lack of major disputes or widescale industrial action in the broadcast world means everything is fine down 't studio or has peace been maintained with a lot of hard work? CHRISTMAS may be a time of peace and goodwill to all men. But on the industrial relations front, peace appears to have reigned for the entire year of 1993, with no major disputes or outbreaks of widescale industrial action in the broadcasting sector. I nat is not to say, however, that the year has been marked by 1 2 months of goodwill and harmony. And there has been no shortage of ill-will in the often uneasy peace between staff and employ ers. Threats of strike action have been used on several occasions in the usual argy-bargy sur rounding negotiations on pay and conditions. Brinkmanship remains the name of the game. But in picking out who have been the win ners and losers of the year, most would agree that the talent unions have had more success than the technical and production staff in deal ing with broadcast employers. Tony Lennon, president of BECTU, makes few bones about the tough year his union and members have faced. "Both in ITV and BBC there has been a real struggle to save jobs and keep people employed," he says. On the pay front, the union was presented with a fail accompli when BBC management declared it would count itself part of the public sector in sticking to the 1.5 per cent pay increase imposed by Government. Meanwhile, the general ITV philosophy of slim-down-at-all-costs, prompted by the finan cial pressures and profit-seeking ethos of the new franchise system, has continued to impact hard on BECTU members. "It hasn't been a year when pay has been top of our list of successes," concedes Lennon. Even so, Lennon says BECTU has been successful in minimising job losses despite the "self-flagellation of the BBC" and job shed ding at ITV prompted Ijy "preparation for the take-over world." At the BBC, there has been a lull this year in attempts to impose radical changes in terms and conditions, and the head-long rush to switch to contract working has slackened. But next year Lennon expects BECTU tp be at loggerheads with the BBC over plans to intro duce performance-related pay. Meanwhile perhaps 1 ,000 jobs have been lost within the ITV system this year, estimates Lennon. But the union had some success in clawing back proposed job cuts, particularly those made in the wake of the merger of YTV and Tyne Tees. More disappointing for Lennon has been the lack of increased commissioning, particu larly in the independent sector, which was expected to take up some of the job losses in the ITV sector. "There hasn't been that much of an upsurge, and not one of the scale to be a great help to the numbers of technical and produc tion people who are kicking their heels." But the significance of the independent sec tor has grown this year, as new ITV publisher- contractor, such as Carlton have come on line. Meanwhile, the BBC has edged closer to reaching its independent production quota requirement of 25 per cent. According to Carolyn Jackson, head of industnal relations at independent producers association PACT, the sector is becoming as large a force in programme production as the BBC or ITV themselves when measured by the volume of television hours produced. Against this background, the year has seen two major deals negotiated between PACT and unions. The first, signed with the Musicians' Union, ended a two-and-a-half-year stand-off during which the MU attempted to impose its own draft contract conditions on independents. PACT had refused to agree to a deal which, it said, set rates for musicians far higher than those available in Europe. In the end, a deal was signed with both sides claiming victory The MU says the eventual terms had few differences to its own unilateral contract, while PACT is happy that it can obtain musician's services at a competitive rate compared to ITV and BBC. But the principle of parity with rates charged in agreements with the BBC and ITV has been established in an agreement about to be signed between PACT and Equity. The Equity deal will not provide a carbon copy of terms and conditions for actors apply ing at the BBC and ITV, but certainly no one challenges the suggestion that it represents substantially improved terms for Equity mem bers. As an employers' association, Jackson says PACT has a clear strategy of negotiating tough deals with unions. But she shares an interest with union members that the broadcasters which commission her members make budgets available to ensure that quality talent and pro duction staff can be hired. "People who pay us think they can often get programmes made cheaper simply bccause there are quite a lot of independents in the queue who are keen to get a commission," she says. "But the budgets on offer sometimes are so low that it really isn't possible to get the right calibre of people working for you. We want to be able to cover ourselves, and get the right people and do the programme profes sionally. At the moment we are often offered less to do programmes than is on offer in- house, and that's not fair." Stan Martin, assistant general secretary at the MU, also sees the deal with PACT as the major event in the broadcast sector this year, ending the long stand-off between the two organisations. Although he is happy with the deal, he is aware that the more competitive terms it can offer to PACT programme makers compared with ITV and BBC agreements may be used to undermine agreements up for renegotiation in the New Year. "Clearly both ITV and BBC will be shaping up for a new deal. Both have already intimated that they expect changes, and with ITV we envisage difficult negotiations," he says. "PACT rates will be cheaper (than BBC and ITV). If independents are getting rates which are cheaper, then they (BBC and ITV) will look to us to reduce rates. But that is a line we will resist." In the hot seat at ITV Network Centre is Rod Hastie, controller of rights, negotiations and administration. Negotiations with techni cal staff remain a matter for individual ITV companies. But the Network Centre negotiates with the talent unions. So far this year he- has struck deals with the Writers' Guild and has reached agreement with Equity for greater flexibility in payments to reflect changing trends in the way ITV companies are structur ing their schedules. "The main significant changes have been changes in the repeat fee structure and pay ments for partly networked programmes," says Hastie. "Negotiating change is never easy, but the relationships established by the companies and talent unions have stood us in good stead in having difficult discussions but getting sen sible resolutions." Equity spokesman Martin Brown is in no doubt that what appeared at first a difficult year for his members has ended up better than many had hoped. The start of 1993 was marked by a stand-off between Equity and the BBC and Thames Television over the launch of UK Gold with out any agreed repeat payment structure. The broadcasters eventually agreed to a payment structure based on original fees paid to performers, rather than the notional sale price of both broadcaster's archive stock to their joint venture. According to Brown, the deal struck secured proper reward for repeats on UK satellite stations without pricing UK pro gramme libraries out of the market. The union struck a similar deal with ITV companies in May last year for reduced repeat rates in certain circumstances to allow ITV to reshow UK shows rather than rely on imported material. "The deal recognised a new competitive element in how ITV are trying to schedule," says Brown. The unions also successfully ->aw off attempts to browbeat members working on YTV's Emmerdale to accept no further payments for daytime repeats. Disappointments this year, though, include the demise of several hundreds of hours of BBC radio drama with the scrapping of Radio 5, and end-of-year attacks by both the BBC and ITV on end-credits. The dispute, if not the credits, rolls on. But at least one union organiser is able to report a clear improvement in his sector. John Fray of the NUJ says prospects for his mem bers are better now than they have been for a long time. Many members displaced in the trauma of ITV company staff slimdowns and by failure of their companies to win back licences have now been absorbed back into the broadcast sector. At the same time, expansion in the BBC's radio and television current affairs out put has buoyed up the market for experienced broadcast journalists. In one area of broadcasting at least, the harsh recessionary wind appears to be drop ping at last.

ARTICLE SIX - "EYE, EYE! WE'VE GOT THE BIGGEST CINEMA SCREEN IN THE BRITISH ISLES!" (Sunday World, Dublin, 26th Dec 1993)

Do you know what the ITV Network Centre have discovered? Wow: this'll make your Sunday, this will. This is one of those gigantic thoughts which must occur to every thinking person at least once in a lifetime. Usually at around 10 years of age. In so far as I reckon there's not a 10-year-old in the country who couldn't have told ITV this without them bothering to go off and do expensive research to learn it.

It's this... that as soon as the credits start to roll at the end of a TV programme, people start zapping to another station to see what else is on. Now, ain''t that some dilly of a brand new discovery? Don't that just further the cause of civilisation another giant step? And when did YOU first discover this awesome truth? Altogether now... TWENTY YEARS AGO!

Yes, the smart boys have just discovered that folk start zapping as soon as the credits start rolling and so the next show on loses viewers. And they've now advised ALL ITV companies to cut their credits, to shorten the roll in order to keep their audience. We all know now that when you go to the cinema, the end credits are nearly as long as the movie, and television has been going fast into that direction.

ABOUT TIME IT WAS STOPPED... I know the people on the end credits believe that their next job is dependent on credit appearances but I've long believed this is bunkem. Who really needs to know who the chief Grip is? It's all gone too far but it's now about to be curtailed. God be the good 'ol days when the opening credits of a movie lasted about 1 minute - if that! God be with The Late Late show - as long as the credits take about 30 seconds! See, that's our trouble... too darn modest!

Edited January 17, 2023 by nenehcherry2

[James Martin]

On 14/01/2023 at 15:00, nenehcherry2 said:

Really appreciate this response, James. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to this one with your own memories! You're about 3 years older than myself, so a more trustworthy recollection of facts. 

This is all coming together now; the "intermediate" credit that I've always remembered seeing as a six year old was a simple "you know we belong together" and a flash of a Director credit. Thus, it's highly likely that I saw that one-off version that aired after Dale's death. Whilst I don't directly remember the said storyline, I'd always remembered Pippa having a baby around that time (which turned out to have been Dale) and was watching the show (in the way that a six year old would) EVERY evening (hence why I'd always remembered random things in detail like the credit shot of Fin & Sal swapping hats and Bobby pulling a boat ten times the size of herself!).

I've always known (without knowing how) that the credits went down to 5 seconds just before Bobby's death aired. So your suggested date ties in perfectly. It was indeed also half-term where I lived (Corby, Northamptonshire) during the week that the boat accident aired (in fact, episode 1299 aired on my birthday, Friday 18th Feb; my friends and I were imitating Michael's resuscitation on the beach, the said memory was verified by my Mother recently!). We picked up both Anglia & Central, often alternating between the two with no preference. Do you think it's possible that the 5s cut version first aired on the week commencing 3rd January 94 (the Monday was a bank holiday)? Whilst not technically half-term, it would still have been the Christmas holidays for most of us.

I'll try to find a way of sharing screen shots of the articles I found on BNA which talk about the new ITV Network Centre rules on credits being no more than 30 seconds in duration (which led to Equity union strike threats in the UK), following some research on viewer attention spans; I can't share these as hyperlinks as would redirect you all to their login page. Said articles were published in November & December 1993, implying that the credits of ITV shows would be reduced in length as such "from the New Year". 

 

It's possible it was the Bank Holiday.  But I don't recall Dad being off work and the lunchtime showing for the first time I saw the cut was on at the normal time, bank holidays generally saw the show moved to around 11/11:30am for the lunchtime and 3:30/4pm for the evening.  Lunchtimes were 1:25pm network wide by 1994, with teatimes still region dependent.

Memories are fallible but I'm very certain the change kicked in the Monday of February half term, because I pointed it out to Mum and her response was "means you get an extra minute of Home and Away but no music."  Bizarrely, I recall the freeze frame being on evergreen Most Popular Charater nominee Luke Cunningham, he of the sax.

That's some excellent research btw, love it!  What we really need is some off-air VHS recordings now to corroborate it.  Crucially what's never been cleared up is whether or not the cut was phased in regionally?  I want to say not - having seen a routine sheet for Thames Television in 1992, they played out the lunchtime showing to all companies.  Each company then recorded a copy off that feed to play back at teatime (hence you could have two regions showinf at 5:10pm but not in sync with one another.)  So they'd have whatever credits were being fed from London.

[nenehcherry2]

8 hours ago, James Martin said:

It's possible it was the Bank Holiday.  But I don't recall Dad being off work and the lunchtime showing for the first time I saw the cut was on at the normal time, bank holidays generally saw the show moved to around 11/11:30am for the lunchtime and 3:30/4pm for the evening.  Lunchtimes were 1:25pm network wide by 1994, with teatimes still region dependent.

I remember the 13.25 rule! According to the BNA, H&A aired at 12 noon on Monday 3rd (and back to 13.25 the rest of the week). 

8 hours ago, James Martin said:

Memories are fallible but I'm very certain the change kicked in the Monday of February half term, because I pointed it out to Mum and her response was "means you get an extra minute of Home and Away but no music."  Bizarrely, I recall the freeze frame being on evergreen Most Popular Charater nominee Luke Cunningham, he of the sax.

Interesting! I have access to copies of most episodes aired on the most recent Aussie repeats (if you know, you know)... the only episode which aired on ITV in either of those two periods (Xmas / NY 93-4 and 14th - 18th Feb 94) which features a Luke freezeframe was Episode 1268 (airing on ITV on Thurs 6th January 94). According to my "Year 2 guide" (see, you can tell I'm a historian!), my own school (Northants) went back on the Friday (Thursday was a teacher's training day in our county). Hence... why I've always remembered blonder Bobby & Greg screaming their heads off at each other and at Sam on our newly purchased TV set (we joined the millions of UK folks who signed up to Sky Multichannels in Christmas 93, taking the opportunity to also procure a "modern" television), whilst it was daytime outside (without having a clue what the argument was about). I have family just over "the border" in Leics and note they generally break up from / return to school a week earlier than us Northants kids. 

Now, that's not to say that Episode 1265 (airing Monday 14th Feb 94) had the final scene cut by ITV (hardly a scene to censor but maybe timing reasons). It's angry Bobby ranting at Alf & Luke in the store followed by "forgiving" Greg at a picnic scene. The penultimate scene (before that) is indeed Luke in the midst of the Bill storyline.

8 hours ago, James Martin said:

That's some excellent research btw, love it!  What we really need is some off-air VHS recordings now to corroborate it. 

Thanks for your compliments, I have a history degree and have used BNA for that (as well as for family / local history research)! It's great to find folks on here who are also clearly armchair researchers!  

I've looked on YouTube & do so every few months or so! The 21st December 1993 showing has full credits, whereas it is not clear whether the 24th December did or not. I'm ALMOST certain that Thurs 23rd December 93 has previously been uploaded to YT (and since removed) with full credits but could be wrong. Either way, none of those eps end on a "Saxy Luke" freezeframe...!

 

 

8 hours ago, James Martin said:

Crucially what's never been cleared up is whether or not the cut was phased in regionally?  I want to say not - having seen a routine sheet for Thames Television in 1992, they played out the lunchtime showing to all companies.  Each company then recorded a copy off that feed to play back at teatime (hence you could have two regions showinf at 5:10pm but not in sync with one another.)  So they'd have whatever credits were being fed from London.

 

You're absolutely correct, kudos! A good friend of mine was a PA for a senior leader at Thames and was then tupeed to the ITV network Centre from Jan 93 after the franchise awards took place. She has a FANTASTIC long term memory! She recalls that networked shows were played out from the relevant region holding the UK copyright - both before and after the Network Centre was formally established by the 1990 Broadcasting Act. The other transmitters (operated by different regions) were all connected to each other by ISDN switches. For example, Granada would play out Corrers & the other regions would relay Granada's feed. Now, in the case of imported or "third party" network series such Home & Away and Baywatch, Thames had this role in the pre-1993 system due to a Grandfather clause. After Thames left the ITV network, Carlton took over compliance (with the newly established ITC delivering scrutiny - don't get me started on those buggers!). Carlton also managed, under licence from the ITV Network Centre, playout of all such 3rd party shows, meaning Home & Away was consistently played out from London (presumably at 13.25) & the other regions relayed this feed through an indirect distribution network whilst recording the lunchtime showing for an evening repeat (which, to your point, differed by region timing wise). 

In terms of copyright & procurement prior to the 1993 Network Centre establishment, she added that the scheduling of fully networked shows on the (pre-93 more organically ran) ITV network was an "old boys club" (true quote) of the "big 5 regions", with little to no input from the smaller ones - except for a financial contribution proportionate to their audience share (minus the commercial performance of any in-house produced shows those smaller ones contributed). There was a gentleman's agreement that Thames' procurement team (due to size) would source shows from 3rd parties. But these shows were actually purchased by "ITV" for the ITV network as a whole. Meaning Thames had the discussions with Pacific (the non-Australian distributors of H&A) in 1988 (corroborated by BNA articles which I'll share, along with the costs of the sales! ). 

After 1993, it was more simple. "ITV Network" was an organisation in its own right with its own procurement team who purchased rights to shows from 3rd parties. But, as above, Carlton was given the role to play out such shows. 

I'm thinking of setting up a new topic to timeline the general history of the show on ITV (avoiding dilution with this topic as well as the ratings one we've contributed to).

I've found a wave of BNA articles with information such as the sequence of episode purchases from Thames & the associated costs, Sky One bidding for H&A's rights in 1992 etc etc. Would love to share these on BTTB!

[CaptainHulk]

Whoa... BTFU a sec?

Sky One wanted H&A?

Greedy bastards wanted everything even then! They already snaked the 1st run rights to Teenage Mutant *Hero* (ugh) Turtles off the BBC in 1990 and jacked 

I suppose it wouldn't be later in the decade when they started hoovering up everything, Friends 1st run rights etc (Was a much better channel then, though)

[nenehcherry2]

30 minutes ago, CaptainHulk said:

Whoa... BTFU a sec?

Sky One wanted H&A?

Greedy bastards wanted everything even then! They already snaked the 1st run rights to Teenage Mutant *Hero* (ugh) Turtles off the BBC in 1990 and jacked 

I suppose it wouldn't be later in the decade when they started hoovering up everything, Friends 1st run rights etc (Was a much better channel then, though)

Yep... I'll dig out the article when I get a mo... ITV were about to run out of episodes (they'd only bought up to 1,040, due to air in Feb 93) & Sky took advantage by negotiating with Portman Entertainment (international H&A distributors at the time, later merged into "Pacific Entertainment"). The newly reconstructed ITV Network responded by paying £20 million for THREE YEARS worth of rights (they'd paid £10 million in their last round back in 1990). I believe they bought episode 1,040 to around the 1996 (Aus pace) mark in late 1992. As I said, I'll dig it out! Whether any of that £20Million made its way to Seven or was pocketed fully by Pacific remains a mystery (maybe time to stalk the former Legal team on LinkedIn?! ).

It all coincided with Thames losing their franchisee status for the London region in 1991, the latter passing to Carlton (effective from 1st Jan 93). Thames famously responded to that loss with a (fair) degree of bitterness throughout 1992, leading to acromonious relations between them and the rest of the ITV network.

Sky Multichannels was already in development phase & Sky were scooping up the best shows (as if The Simpsons wasn't enough) in advance of that launching in Autumn 93.

Also, UK Gold (co-owned by Thames) wanted to air H&A from the beginning but ITV, presumably pissed off with Thames' general behavior, blocked that under a 10 year clause (ITV2 was planned to launch in 93, the plan was to air it on that). Hence why Living were able to win the UK repeat rights in 1999. 

So H&A clearly did once mean something to ITV... who'd have thought it?!

11 minutes ago, nenehcherry2 said:

Yep... I'll dig out the article when I get a mo... ITV were about to run out of episodes (they'd only bought up to 1,040, due to air in Feb 93) & Sky took advantage by negotiating with Pacific (international H&A distributors at the time). The newly reconstructed ITV Network responded by paying £20 million for THREE YEARS worth of rights (they'd paid £10 million in their last round back in 1990). I believe they bought episode 1,040 to around the 1996 (Aus pace) mark in late 1992. As I said, I'll dig it out! Whether any of that £20Million made its way to Seven or was pocketed fully by Pacific remains a mystery (maybe time to stalk the former Legal team on LinkedIn?! ).

It all coincided with Thames losing their franchisee status for the London region in 1991, the latter passing to Carlton (effective from 1st Jan 93). Thames famously responded to that loss with a (fair) degree of bitterness throughout 1992, leading to acromonious relations between them and the rest of the ITV network.

Sky Multichannels was already in development phase & Sky were scooping up the best shows (as if The Simpsons wasn't enough) in advance of that launching in Autumn 93.

Also, UK Gold (co-owned by Thames) wanted to air H&A from the beginning but ITV, presumably pissed off with Thames' general behavior, blocked that under a 10 year clause (ITV2 was planned to launch in 93, the plan was to air it on that). Hence why Living were able to win the UK repeat rights in 1999. 

So H&A clearly did once mean something to ITV... who'd have thought it?!

Taken from Variety Magazine (14th October 1992) - link is ITV renews Australian 'Home' in $ 35 mil deal - Variety.

"ITV Renews Australian "Home" in £20 Million Deal"

The ITV Network has reordered Aussie soap “Home and Away” for another three years at a price of T20 million ($ 35 million), believed to be one of the most expensive deals ever for an imported show on British television.

The network was forced to more than double the previous rate it paid to London-based indie distribution Portman Entertainment for the hit show, in order to fight off a rival bid from satellite broadcaster BSky. 

The ITV web has reordered Aussie soap “Home and Away” for another three years at a price of T20 million ($ 35 million), believed to be one of the most expensive deals ever for an imported show on British television.

The web was forced to more than double the previous rate it paid to London-based indie distrib Portman Entertainment for the hit show, in order to fight off a rival bid from satellite broadcaster BSkyB.

This is the new competitive face of U.K. TV. In the past, ITV and the pubcaster, BBC, had a policy of not trying to poach each other’s hit imports. But the arrival of BSkyB as a powerful force in the market, with a predominantly imported schedule on its general entertainment channel Sky One, has changed the game.

Edited January 18, 2023 by nenehcherry2

[CaptainHulk]

^Good Find!