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1991 Episode Discussion


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I think its a shame that Sam isn't remembered more as a classic character and remembered more fondly. As he was in it longer than most other characters and such strong links to Bobby, Fisher, Sally, Pippa and the past.

And we saw him grow up. I'm a little surprised how little affect he now has on viewers not even making the last poll here.

Also, now he is in it in 1991, Sally all of a sudden seems so much older. Its propelled the cute young Sally, into the next phase of the character. Still ignored a lot of the time though. Poor Sal. She always seemed just to be in the way a lot of the time. Which is why I loved the self loathing story she had in her later teens. It was done well.

Anyway, loving the current 1991 episode.

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Poor Sal. She always seemed just to be in the way a lot of the time. Which is why I loved the self loathing story she had in her later teens. It was done well.

Me too, it was a case of art imitating life, and good on the writers. They had realised that they had ignored Sally, or at least, not given her the cool boyfriends and in-your-face storylines of the other teens, and so they acknowledged it within the show and made Sally acknowledge it too.

I think it was too late by the time they realised Sally was now a teen-group aged character. When Selina, Curtis, Shannon etc came into the show, Sally wasn't remotely part of that group. She was still the background character who always got in the way. I think when she hit 16/17, the writers realised it was time to give Sally more teenage storylines, but it wasn't yet time to bring in a new teen group as Selina, Shannon etc were still in their element. So they tried to shove Sally in with them all of a sudden, and it seemed forced. And they acknowledged this within the storylines which I thought was excellent. They even moved her opening credits shot (the one of her walking along the pier) so that it now followed Jack, Curtis, Shannon and Selina - not the most subtle of moves.

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Now that Sam is in the show it has reminded me of the story when Morag was trying to get hold of him.

And it made me think that the next time they met would have been Alf's 60th. A missed opportunity to have Morag explain her actions to Sam and have a conversation about Bobby now that he was an adult.

Though I suppose they crammed too much in to that ep as it was.

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I think its a shame that Sam isn't remembered more as a classic character and remembered more fondly. As he was in it longer than most other characters and such strong links to Bobby, Fisher, Sally, Pippa and the past.

And we saw him grow up. I'm a little surprised how little affect he now has on viewers not even making the last poll here.

Also, now he is in it in 1991, Sally all of a sudden seems so much older. Its propelled the cute young Sally, into the next phase of the character. Still ignored a lot of the time though. Poor Sal. She always seemed just to be in the way a lot of the time. Which is why I loved the self loathing story she had in her later teens. It was done well.

Anyway, loving the current 1991 episode.

RE Sally, I think that's because Sam has pretty much replaced her where she was in 1988/9 and she has outgrown the "cute little kid" bracket. She's in an awakward age group at the moment. She's too young to hang out with Sophie, Blake, Karen etc and has a year till High School but also seems too old to be with Sam all the time, so she is there purely for family back up. Having a pre-teen as a permanent cast member was a new scenario for the writers at the time and, without having others her age to bounce off, she will be 'ignored' for some time sadly. She still has what can be classed as 'moments' (e.g. Pippa

forgetting her first day at High School in several months and persuading Alf to forgive Adam) but has no real story arc of her own, other than being affected by what happens to those around her. These latter stories are useful plot devices in themselves in that they make her become the archaetypal 'loner' so that when she does have a group of her own age at long last by 1995 (effectively when Andrew Warren moves her into Year 11 Maths in April 1995), a strong part of her character becomes set and she enters a new phase as "teenage outsider".

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Now that Sam is in the show it has reminded me of the story when Morag was trying to get hold of him.

And it made me think that the next time they met would have been Alf's 60th. A missed opportunity to have Morag explain her actions to Sam and have a conversation about Bobby now that he was an adult.

Though I suppose they crammed too much in to that ep as it was.

Without sounding hypocritical, this should also be in spoilers.

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Poor Sal. She always seemed just to be in the way a lot of the time. Which is why I loved the self loathing story she had in her later teens. It was done well.

Me too, it was a case of art imitating life, and good on the writers. They had realised that they had ignored Sally, or at least, not given her the cool boyfriends and in-your-face storylines of the other teens, and so they acknowledged it within the show and made Sally acknowledge it too.

I think it was too late by the time they realised Sally was now a teen-group aged character. When Selina, Curtis, Shannon etc came into the show, Sally wasn't remotely part of that group. She was still the background character who always got in the way. I think when she hit 16/17, the writers realised it was time to give Sally more teenage storylines, but it wasn't yet time to bring in a new teen group as Selina, Shannon etc were still in their element. So they tried to shove Sally in with them all of a sudden, and it seemed forced. And they acknowledged this within the storylines which I thought was excellent. They even moved her opening credits shot (the one of her walking along the pier) so that it now followed Jack, Curtis, Shannon and Selina - not the most subtle of moves.

I've only just seen that this post was before mine! I think they could get away initially with not including Sal because she was the year below them in High School anyway and their reason for not doing it was because they did not want to change her character, as it'd been established by then that she was not one of the gang. Her few friends that she did have (Gloria I think was one) were rarely seen for instance. But by moving her up into Year 11 meant that her interaction with the other kids wasn't just limited to Jack and Shannon in SBH.

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Even when Sally is hanging around with Curtis, Shannon, Selina and Co. they interact with her differently than they do with each other. Like they sort of interact with her like she is outside of their group, or like she is young and inexperienced (i.e teasing her, in a friendly way when she has a boyfriend). I like how onscreen they try to include her, but it feels like they are being polite more than anything and that is later acknowledged on screen when Sally calls them out on it.

Shannon and Sally do have a good relationship though, I think they have a special sisterly bond that is different to the way Shannon and Selina are written as friends. Later on Chloe and Sally become close, but still there is just something 'distant' about their friendship, compared to say Chloe and Rebecca who seemed closer. I don't really think Sally had a proper on screen best friend until Leah and Shauna came along, then she suddenly had two.

They sort of did the same with Sam, but to a much lesser degree - in that he starts off with storylines and a more prominent role - then when he moves in with the Ross', he becomes much more secluded and is too old to hang out with Chris and Duncan, but too young to hang out with Sally - he does have a teen group to hang out with though once he moves in with Fisher, when Will, Hayley, Gypsy and co. arrive.

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Even when Sally is hanging around with Curtis Shannon, Selina and Co. they interact with her differently than they do with each other. Like they sort of interact with her like she is outside of their group, or like she is young and inexperienced (i.e teasing her, in a friendly way when she has a boyfriend). I like how onscreen they try to include her, but it feels like they are being polite more than anything and that is later acknowledged on screen when Sally calls them out on it.

Shannon and Sally do have a good relationship though, I think they have a special sisterly bond that is different to the way Shannon and Selina are written as friends. Later on Chloe and Sally become close, but still there is just something 'distant' about their friendship, compared to say Chloe and Rebecca who seemed closer. I don't really think Sally had a proper on screen best friend until Leah and Shauna came along, then she suddenly had two.

They sort of did the same with Sam, but to a much lesser degree - in that he starts off with storylines and a more prominent role - then when he moves in with the Ross', he becomes much more secluded and is too old to hang out with Chris and Duncan, but too young to hang out with Sally - he does have a teen group to hang out with though once he moves in with Fisher, when Will, Hayley, Gypsy and co. arrive.

Agree with you RE the way that Shannon and Sally's relationship was written. Initially, Shannon and Sally were incredibly jealous of each other for different reasons - Shan of Sal's role within the family and Sal of Shan's role within the gang / school - but they got on well when the chips were down, and genuinely loved and were loyal with each other as foster sisters would. They did ultimately get past these earlier issues and became close friends as well as foster sisters towards the end, supporting and socialising with each other, and finding common ground over their studies. They wanted the best for each other but it wasn't a two-way communication - Shannon would reassure Sal in her self-esteem, while Sally would bring Shannon back down to Earth when needed. That said, I don't think they would have ever become as close had they had not have had the family connection to start with, whereas for me Shannon and Selina would always have been best friends.

I always see Bobby / Carly as somewhere between Sally / Shannon and Shannon / Selina - not a natural chpoice of friendship but they became confidents as adults yet neither always liked / appreciated the advice each other was given. Plus, it was far more unpleasant at times than either Shan/Sal or Sel/Shan!

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Now that Sam is in the show it has reminded me of the story when

Morag was trying to get hold of him.

And it made me think that the next time they met would have been Alf's 60th. A missed opportunity to have Morag explain her actions to Sam and have a conversation about Bobby now that he was an adult.

Though I suppose they crammed too much in to that ep as it was.

Thinking back, I remember that

next time Morag appeared in 2001, she commented on the situation with Sam and Sandy and it may well have been implied or outright stated that she and Sam had met in the city off screen.But yes, it would have been nice to see some interaction between them in that episode.

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