Hercules and Xena

[emmasi]

Recent additions to the H&A cast (ie Jay Laga'aia) have exposed a latent desire to discuss Hercules and Xena. So here we are! Discuss away!

I'm no expert - I can't recall each and every episode by name - but I enjoyed both these shows. They both lost me in the later seasons but that's not uncommon. Xena had a few offerings left in it by season six with episodes like "Lyre Lyre" and "You Are There," but I lost track of Hercules after Iolaus died... or was possessed... or both... It's been a while . Lucky for me, Michael Hurst played the TV reporter in "You Are There," and I got to see him interviewing all of the characters in Xena, asking the hard-hitting questions such as: how do the gods of Love and War cope with being stinky, impotent mortals? and what IS the exact nature of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship??? Good times, good times.

I like the episodes that take the characters out of the hero/warrior genre, where there is singing and dancing and time-skips and alternate universes, including one in which Hercules is pretending to be Kevin Sorbo pretending to be Hercules... "Yes, Virginia, There Is A Hercules!"

It's been years since I've actually watched Hercules, which is a shame because I liked it better than Xena for a long time (mostly because I was in love with Iolaus ). I have a collection of fan-favourites Xena DVDs so I'm more familiar with that series now (though like I said, no expert). My favourite episodes (off the top of my head) are "Been There, Done that," "The Quill Is Mightier," "The Bitter Suite," and "You Are There." "Lyre Lyre" and "The Xena Scrolls" are always good for a laugh, and anything with Callisto in it is just neat.

I guess it wouldn't be out of line to mention the series "Legend of the Seeker" in here either, since it's made by the same people who made Xena and Hercules... and since my dearest little Jason Smith has starred in an episode, lookin' all yummy and playing with swords ..

Oh, which reminds me: coincidentally, my computer wallpaper is currently a drawing I made of "Kim: Warrior Prince" with his lovable sidekick, Robbie.

Discuss!!

[slideyfoot]

Yay!

I'm no expert - I can't recall each and every episode by name - but I enjoyed both these shows. They both lost me in the later seasons but that's not uncommon. Xena had a few offerings left in it by season six with episodes like "Lyre Lyre" and "You Are There,"

I definitely preferred Hercules out of the two, because like I said in the other thread, I felt it was always more willing to be silly and have fun. Xena tended to get bogged down in 'serious' plots like "oh no, I was a horrible murdering warmonger once" and "Gabrielle agonises over her demon-baby", though I could be misremembering. Been a while for me too, at least in terms of watching Xena.

I'm working my way back through Hercules via box set, so up to Season 3 so far. Surprisingly enough, it's become the fall-back viewing for my gf and I when there is nothing on TV. Most pleased she's willing to watch it with me: now I just need to convince she really does want to watch Mysterious Cities of Gold again...

Lucky for me, Michael Hurst played the TV reporter in "You Are There," and I got to see him interviewing all of the characters in Xena, asking the hard-hitting questions such as: how do the gods of Love and War cope with being stinky, impotent mortals? and what IS the exact nature of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship??? Good times, good times.

I thought he was brilliant in Hercules, so it would be fascinating to see him in other stuff. I don't suppose he did anything else vaguely fantastical/mythological? Or perhaps some film he was especially good in?

I like the episodes that take the characters out of the hero/warrior genre, where there is singing and dancing and time-skips and alternate universes, including one in which Hercules is pretending to be Kevin Sorbo pretending to be Hercules... "Yes, Virginia, There Is A Hercules!"

Yeah, those are fun too, although it only works if you've already been watching the series for a good while. Then they make for a invigorating change, as you get to see the characters (or at least actors) you already love in different guises, sometimes even trying out different personalities. Happened a lot with Star Trek too, like alternate universes in DS9, or that one episode where they all appear in '40s America, for some reason.

I guess it wouldn't be out of line to mention the series "Legend of the Seeker" in here either, since it's made by the same people who made Xena and Hercules.

Ooo, that sounds fun. Mythological type stuff again, or more in the fantasy vein?

[emmasi]

Fantasy. I watched a few episodes online because I heard that Jason was in an episode, but now it's on pay TV here and they promote it a lot, which makes me happy to think that the world is ready for fantasy again. I'm also happy that Merlin rated so well here, but that's another story.

[slideyfoot]

Fantasy. I watched a few episodes online because I heard that Jason was in an episode, but now it's on pay TV here and they promote it a lot, which makes me happy to think that the world is ready for fantasy again. I'm also happy that Merlin rated so well here, but that's another story.

Cool: can never have too much fantasy. I spent the majority of my childhood buried in Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Piers Anthony and a bunch of others (my mother loves the genre and reads stupidly fast, so I just went through her enormous bookshelves).

Have you seen Kröd Mändoon and the Flaming Sword of Fire? As you can probably tell from the title, it's VERY silly, wonderfully so. If you imagine Hercules pushed even further into the comedy spectrum, from a more English perspective, you'll have a good idea of what its like.

[emmasi]

Hm, I haven't heard of any of those things but Kröd Mändoon and the Flaming Sword of Fire sounds interesting. I'm not much of a reader. I prefer TV. TV is more convenient. I'm generally too impatient for books, but I do like Terry Pratchett. Even so, I've only read three or four of his books and I think he's got hundreds so that may give you an idea of how committed I am to reading (not very).

I was raised on movies like Ladyhawke, The Never-ending Story, The Last Unicorn, and Willow, which paved the way for shows like Hercules and Xena to captivate me. Also Buffy but that's another thread.

[slideyfoot]

I was raised on movies like Ladyhawke, The Never-ending Story, The Last Unicorn, and Willow

Same here: love all of those. My favourite of all time is The Flight of Dragons, though I still haven't got around to checking out the book (which may or may not be a bad thing). There were so many great fantasy films in the '80s, like Labyrinth and The Princess Bride, and so many not-so-great, but in an amusingly bad way, like The Beastmaster and Krull. Then there was all-out camp epic, like Conan the Barbarian, which is another big fave of mine: definitely helped stuff like Hercules the following decade.

Incidentally, that band calling itself Ladyhawke greatly confused me when they first came out, as I kept seeing posters with 'Ladyhawke' on it. I thought it was some kind of revival or sequel to the film.

Also Buffy but that's another thread.

I never really got into that, but always felt I should. Whedon's Firefly was awesome, though, even if it has got a bit overhyped in recent years. I guess fair enough, as it was now-famously cancelled the first time round.

I'm not much of a reader. I prefer TV. TV is more convenient. I'm generally too impatient for books, but I do like Terry Pratchett. Even so, I've only read three or four of his books and I think he's got hundreds so that may give you an idea of how committed I am to reading (not very).

I like some of his earlier ones (Mort was really good, and an interesting idea), but he's settled into a formula now, which isn't so appealing.

[Slade]

One universe but separate shows, Hercules, The Legendary Journeys and Xena Warrior Princess. I loved the character of Hercules. He was the ultimate good guy – friendly, warm, kind, flawless. I felt really sorry for him losing his family. I also quite liked the relationship with Iolaus (I didn’t realised he died) and Salmoneous. However I preferred Xena because the show had a much darker feel about it, she was flawed, wasn’t as friendly and at times had attitude.

It’s funny how when her character first appeared they were only originally planning on keeping her around for three episodes before killing her off but because she had such a huge fan base they decided to devote her own show to her. I didn’t see every single season but from what I saw I liked how in the beginning she would kill without showing one ounce of remorse but towards the end of the season when she encountered Callisto and confided in Gabrielle about the sins of her past there was genuine regret there. After that her character developed to the point she would actively avoid trying to kill like Hercules.

I thought Callisto was an awesome baddie. And I liked the whole psychotic feel about her. I remember one episode – “A necessary evil” - where Velaska (who ate ambrosia and became a god) was after Gabrielle and Xena had no choice other than to get Callisto (because she gained immortality I believe) to help them because she was the only person available that would give them a chance. In one part of the episode Callisto made Xena stand and announce to a random village the crimes she committed which destroyed Callisto’s village when she was a little girl and Callisto stood there and looked so sad. I just wanted to give her a hug.

For me the defining moment which truly showed Xena had gone a long way was when her son died (I can’t remember Callisto’s role in it but when Xena was crying over her son’s lifeless body, Callisto was smiling, with her eyes closed almost like she had goosebumps) but Xena didn’t relapse, still continued on the path of the greater good.

Although Hercules and Xena were both different one thing I liked about them which I felt they shared in common was that they were both very much tongue in cheek.

[slideyfoot]

However I preferred Xena because the show had a much darker feel about it, she was flawed, wasn’t as friendly and at times had attitude.

Heh - the complete opposite of my preference. I have the lingering feeling that Xena desperately wanted to be serious, but was trying too hard, given the general silliness of the subject matter and environment. Then again, it has been a long time since I last watched it, so quite possible I've built up this impression based on misremembered snippets, rather than the actual show (especially as there were musical episodes, like emmasi mentioned).

Not that there is anything wrong with taking a serious slant: lots of shows do that very well, of course, though it seems more typical for sci-fi than in fantasy. For example, Star Trek has had numerous extremely serious shows over its long run, which deftly explored some tough issues. E.g., 'Duet' in the first season of DS9 was an absorbing study of genocide, racism and forgiveness, which managed to completely hold your attention despite being pretty much just two actors (who did an incredible job that show) in dialogue for the majority of the episode.

[Miranda]

I preferred Xena cos it was darker. I liked the fact that she could beat men up without doing much Hercules was good, but just missing something.

[slideyfoot]

I preferred Xena cos it was darker. I liked the fact that she could beat men up without doing much Hercules was good, but just missing something.

Strong female characters are definitely a good thing: nowhere near enough women in roles that enable them to show a bit of combat prowess. I'm not sure you could exactly call Xena feminist, given the rather impractically sexed up armour, but she did at least resolve plots on her own without help from some muscular hero, which was refreshing.

The treatment of women wasn't very progressive in Hercules. They seemed to be mainly there for cleavage, which was unfortunate. Atalanta at least had a bit of beef, but her costume was even more ridiculous than Xena's.