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^^ What's even more funny is the way he told Leah it's not even about his teaching job....it's the boxing :blink: Well Tony, if you're happy to lose your wife and son for a boxing class then more fool you!! I guess deep down his real reason is Jack but for some insane reason he doesn't want to tell her that.

well, Rachel wants to sacrifice her husband for her work... Why does it make her better than Tony??

I certainly do understand Tony! He has been written so realistic in this. He is still the man who has been broken so many times, first by loosing his first wife and then by loosing his fiance and also loosing his oldest son. He has build himself up so many times. And for people who has been through something like this, the things around are so important too them. Because a change in life does meaning to loose control of life and whats happening, again. And moving to an another place means a lot of changes, especially moving to an another country with an another culture.

I think that rachel has been extremely selfish in this, she is not acting like a married person should do. She had made up her mind before she talked properly to Tony about it. She has actually become obsessed with the thought that this is the right thing for her, without tinking about other options. But she has always been portrayed like this, first she has thought about something she is behaving like this is the only right thing to do. She was like this with Kim too. And how she was around Tony before they got married (first time...)... She is moody and self centered.

Of course Tony has his faults in this but they are small comparing to rachels. Tony is just scared of changes because of what he has been through. Yes, he should talk to rAchel about it, but she has already made up her mind. He is afraid of loosing his wife and son too, more than everything, but he seemed to be clinging to the hope that she will come around and not go to USA. His world is cracking around him.

They should have compromised about it. Finding a new job in a town nearby... Because marriage is about give and take. And all rAchel is doing is take... She is behaving (always) like a spoilt brat.

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Tony has been completely changed in this and i am struggling to understand why you can't see that. He has never completely refused to talk to her before, never treated her like what she wants doesn't matter and he has never been this hypocritical before. He told her she should be excited by it and that she was allowed to consider it. Then he pulls that away without so much as an explanation as to why. He is still refusing to tell her why he doesn't want to go and that infuriates me so much becasue Tony was never like that. Rachel admitted to Leah she's handled it badly but Tony can't even sit down and disucss it with her. Sure she's not perfect and she's pretty much bulldozed ahead with this but that's always been like her and sometimes when an amazing opportunity comes up you have to go for it. Remember she said no at first, it was Tony who told her to 'sleep on it!.'

Rachel doesn't want to sacrifce her husband for work. :huh: Have you even seen the episodes? If you had then you'd know she's desperate for Tony to go with her hence her trying to find him job opportunities and calling his son to help. Rachel has tired to talk to him but he has just completely refused. And she can't get a job like the one in the USA in the near by town, that's been explained in the episodes. Tony is the one unwilling to compromise, he is the one acting like all that matters is his happiness. Sure he's been through a lot but it hasn't exactly been a bed of roses for Rachel as well. She is cracking just as much as Tony and her despair is much more evident than his right now. And if she is doing all is taking by making him leave then you can also say he is doing all is taking by making her stay. It works both ways.

Why do you keep referring to Beth as his finacee? They were never engaged. She turned him down after he admitted he only proposed becasue she was leaving.

Just out of interest are you actually watching at Aus pace? It doesn't seem like you've seen what has actually happened. :rolleyes:

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Tony has been completely changed in this and i am struggling to understand why you can't see that. He has never completely refused to talk to her before, never treated her like what she wants doesn't matter and he has never been this hypocritical before. He told her she should be excited by it and that she was allowed to consider it. Then he pulls that away without so much as an explanation as to why. He is still refusing to tell her why he doesn't want to go and that infuriates me so much becasue Tony was never like that. Rachel admitted to Leah she's handled it badly but Tony can't even sit down and disucss it with her. Sure she's not perfect and she's pretty much bulldozed ahead with this but that's always been like her and sometimes when an amazing opportunity comes up you have to go for it. Remember she said no at first, it was Tony who told her to 'sleep on it!.'

Rachel doesn't want to sacrifce her husband for work. :huh: Have you even seen the episodes? If you had then you'd know she's desperate for Tony to go with her hence her trying to find him job opportunities and calling his son to help. Rachel has tired to talk to him but he has just completely refused. And she can't get a job like the one in the USA in the near by town, that's been explained in the episodes. Tony is the one unwilling to compromise, he is the one acting like all that matters is his happiness. Sure he's been through a lot but it hasn't exactly been a bed of roses for Rachel as well. She is cracking just as much as Tony and her despair is much more evident than his right now. And if she is doing all is taking by making him leave then you can also say he is doing all is taking by making her stay. It works both ways.

Why do you keep referring to Beth as his finacee? They were never engaged. She turned him down after he admitted he only proposed becasue she was leaving.

Just out of interest are you actually watching at Aus pace? It doesn't seem like you've seen what has actually happened. :rolleyes:

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

We aren't saying Rachel is completely right in what she is doing , fair enough she has made a mistake in how she approached it but Tony is being just as unreasonable as she is.

Tony is being irrational, it isn't as though they are moving to somewhere they will have nothing. Rachel will have an amazing job, and he will find a job too! Not to mention his only LIVING son lives in the country, thats the son he should be more worried about being close to , to be honest.

I think they are both just too headstrong for their own good, and Tony , in particular just needs to get over it.

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Tony has been completely changed in this and i am struggling to understand why you can't see that. He has never completely refused to talk to her before, never treated her like what she wants doesn't matter and he has never been this hypocritical before. He told her she should be excited by it and that she was allowed to consider it. Then he pulls that away without so much as an explanation as to why. He is still refusing to tell her why he doesn't want to go and that infuriates me so much becasue Tony was never like that. Rachel admitted to Leah she's handled it badly but Tony can't even sit down and disucss it with her. Sure she's not perfect and she's pretty much bulldozed ahead with this but that's always been like her and sometimes when an amazing opportunity comes up you have to go for it. Remember she said no at first, it was Tony who told her to 'sleep on it!.'

Rachel doesn't want to sacrifce her husband for work. :huh: Have you even seen the episodes? If you had then you'd know she's desperate for Tony to go with her hence her trying to find him job opportunities and calling his son to help. Rachel has tired to talk to him but he has just completely refused. And she can't get a job like the one in the USA in the near by town, that's been explained in the episodes. Tony is the one unwilling to compromise, he is the one acting like all that matters is his happiness. Sure he's been through a lot but it hasn't exactly been a bed of roses for Rachel as well. She is cracking just as much as Tony and her despair is much more evident than his right now. And if she is doing all is taking by making him leave then you can also say he is doing all is taking by making her stay. It works both ways.

Why do you keep referring to Beth as his finacee? They were never engaged. She turned him down after he admitted he only proposed becasue she was leaving.

Just out of interest are you actually watching at Aus pace? It doesn't seem like you've seen what has actually happened. :rolleyes:

yupp I've seen the new eps... just seeing things differently than you do. And I think than none of them have been written out of character, they have being written like this from time to time, with more calm and happy periods in between. Yes, it has been explained that she has been offered a good job in the US, but has she concidered to look for jobs in Australia??? No, she hasn't and maybe she should take an another job in Aus, and probably that is not as good as that one in the US, but still better than the job in Summerbay, and Tony has to look for a job in an another place too, but still they would have been in the same country and with more possibilites to visits the friends in the Bay. And doing compromises and sacrifice that is what marriage is about! I have always disliked the character of Rachel, esp. with Tony because she is so concerned about what she wants, and it is always made out that she is the one who's right and he just have to accept that. That is so wrong. A mans place in the world is not only about to "rescue" the woman and please her needs all the time... And of course her place is not only about the man's either, it would have been the same if Tony was in RAchel's shoes/the opposite situation. But I do think there are cultural differencies here, which make us see things very differently. I think that is the case. And that is the thing I think is very exciting about reading/writing on this board. That's why I am doing it. :)

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I agree it's about compromise and sacrifice but Tony is not willing to do any of those!! Why can't you see that? :( Rachel has been begging him from day one to talk to her and discuss it properly but he's completely shut her out. Right now Tony is only concerned with what makes him happy and he doesn't seem to give a stuff about her. That is not realistic of him at all. Rachel has thought about him from the beginning and this job would actually give her more time with Harry. They both have flaws and they've both been selfish and unreasonable at times in thier relationship - that's what's realistic - not Tony's current behaviour.

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I am definetely in agreement that Tony's been changed through this and I think as a huge Tony fan, I'm one of the people who would know that the writing of him has been poor because I pay more attention to him than someone who wasn't a fan.

I agree that Rachel hasn't acted perfectly in this. She's made the wrong decision in accepting the job on the hope Tony would come, it was a huge risk and she's now left with the possibility that Tony won't come with her. What I love about Rachel's character is she actually admitted she was wrong in doing this. She's not being selfish in the slightest and there is no point looking for other jobs in the area because there will be none that offer the type of work she is looking for. She doesn't just want to treat people in the hospital, she wants to be involved in creating drugs and wants a better work/life balance so she can spend more time with her son; which Daniel can offer. So that suggestion of changing jobs to elsewhere in Australia is invalid. Rachel is so desperate for Tony to come she's gone to the extremes of inviting his son over; so that proves she's not putting her job before her marriage. She's never once actually said she will go without Tony and even when she considered the possibility of him not coming; Rachel asked how they could adapt things to make their marriage work in different countries. So she's not actually even considering for one moment a divorce.

I don't agree that it's always made out that Rachel's right and it's what she wants. Take the boxing issue for example. A storyline I absolutely hated but what it did show is that Tony would go ahead with his own decisions if he believed them to be the best. He never once considered changing the plan, involving less hitting for example because he knew his wife didn't like it and was worried someone would get hurt. Instead he practically said "screw what the wife thinks, I'm doing it anyway." So how is what he did here, any different to what Rachel's doing now? Except Rachel's actually trying to find a way to make it work with Tony; finding him jobs and opportunities over there that are better for him and making him realise his living son will be there to!!!!!

Another example is when Tony got bored of his job. Did he discuss it with Rachel? No he decided to sell it, despite the financial difficulty and strain it would put on his family and it even resulted in Rachel having to work more hours that she didn't really want to in order to make up for the loss. Rachel sacrificed that for her husband and her family because she knew there was no other option; she knew Tony wasn't happy in his job and she knew he was struggling to keep it going. Rachel's not the demon's mistress that people can make her out to be; she actually does a lot of good to. No she's not perfect, she does a hell of a lot of things wrong but she's probably one of the most realistic characters. And I think she's allowed to be a little selfish sometimes; goodness knows how many house calls she has to make in her own time on top of her working hours :P

The whole reason this arrangement isn't working is because Tony's not talking to Rachel; he's not being honest about why he really doesn't want to go, he's giving her mixed messages about what she can and can't feel and he's refusing to have any sort of a conversation with her at all; therefore how are things meant to be compromised and an arrangement set? Everytime Rachel asks to talk he says no, he wont listen to why it's so important to her and this is so so unlike the Tony we know who would always consider Rachel's feelings and be proud of her. If he's afraid of losing his wife like he's been through before with Kate then surely he'd be more eager to go with Rachel? I don't think his 'broken man' attitude is relevant here at all.

but he seemed to be clinging to the hope that she will come around and not go to USA. His world is cracking around him.

And that is exactly what Rachel's doing. They're both being stubborn here and it's making them go round in circles.

Edited by charmed60

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I have resisted commenting on this storyline to this point because I just think it is so poorly written in its portrayal of the long term characters of Rachel and Tony. I think the biggest flaws in the writing have been in the character of Tony. I just can't see that boxing would have such a big influence in the life of the same character who was so distraught in the events surrounding his violent loss of his son Jack. The whole boxing thing just seems so trivial when judged against the other things.

If Tony's ongoing relationship with Jack's burial place

is going to emerge as a major influence for Tony then it needed to come out well before this.

I do actually think their are some threads in Rachel's character that explain this but her character has been so badly written in recent times they are not obvious. When Rachel first came tio the Bay and was working as a psychiatrist she was very career oriented but that was derailed in the events surrounding her relationship with Kim etc. A storyline could have been put together that she has just regained that confidence in her own ability and feels ready to pursue career advancement again. Once again poor writing has not made much of this storyline possibility.

Edited by john003au

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The tumultuous journey of Tony and Rachel has surely made viewers captivated for the past few years. As we farewell Tony and Rachel, along with their son Harry and the legacy that will always be “The Holden Family”, let us reflect on their time on-screen.

Below is a questionnaire that -Karen- and I, the avid Tachel fans that we are, have compiled which is all about Tony, Rachel and Harry - please feel free to fill it in and air your thoughts on this family.

Describe a few memorable pre-Tachel scenes that are worthy of mentioning.

When do you think that you saw that first Tachel spark when they weren’t a couple yet?

What were your favourite and least favourite Tachel storylines?

Mention a few of your favourite Tachel quotes.

Describe your favourite Tachel scenes with and without Harry.

Which was your favourite Harry? Please mention the name of the actor or a scene/storyline that he was involved in.

What will you miss most about the Holden family?

What song best defines Tachel?

If you could re-write any Tachel scene, which would it be and how would it play out?

Are there any storylines which you think could/should have been written for Tachel?

If you were given the chance to let the writers know how you felt about the writing of this couple, what would you say to them?

Any parting words that you would like to express in regards to Tachel?

Edited by QUIET ACHIEVER

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I just need to compose myself and try to get over the fact that Tachel are gone :( Then I'll be right on it! Thank you QA and Karen for composing this; really looking forward to seeing what people put.

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I can't believe they are gone.. Rachel has been my face ever since she arrived I did tell myself once she left haa that I wouldn't watch anymore but I will watch.. Going to miss her so much and tony and Harry too! Sb will def never be the same without them!

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