Jump to content

Madeline McCann


Guest ~Angel~

Recommended Posts

The Portuguese press are now saying Gerry was not Madeleine's father.

He isn't her biological father, I think they used a sperm donor. That's one of the reasons people are sceptical, as Kate apparently found it difficult to bond with Madeleine after she had the twins (who were conceived naturally).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 222
  • Created
  • Last Reply

My understanding is that this is conjecture on the part of the police and the press... and that there is no evidence to back this up.... and given that Madeleine is the image of her paternal aunt it seems rather odd.... also both Madeleine and the twins were conceived by IVF according to an interview with Kate's mother. The idea that Kate has found it hard to bond came from the press no where else.... and if this is the case it illustrates my point that something which starts out as conjecture becomes seen as or accepted as fact due to media saturation.

I know a little about what happens when children go missing... it's standard procedure to start with close family first, the floor boards are often taken up and other searches made. This family were never alone after Madeleine disappeared..... they either had family and friends with them or the media watching... and the car in which the press say the body was transported was not hired until a month later... so where did they hide the body in the interim.. under the bed?... why did no one notice the smell? There are so many holes in all of this .... and the situation is so resonant of the Lindy Chamberlain and the Jon Bent Ramsey cases that I can not help feel sceptical about what is being reported in the press.

I hope really that the UK press backs off...gives them some space and allows the investigative process to continue calmly... I can't see the portuguese press backing off just yet.... but hopefully there will be a break through with Madeleine being found alive. It's the outcome we all want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

British girl Madeleine McCann may have died from an overdose of sleeping pills, newspaper reports say.

French newspaper France Soir said scientific analysis of the bodily fluids found in the boot of the car hired by parents Kate and Gerry McCann proved "the little girl had ingested medicines, without doubt sleeping pills, in large quantities".

A report outlining how the four-year-old met her death was already with Portuguese prosecutors, said France Soir, in a report picked up by several British newspapers.

British forensic experts have expressed doubts about the claim, saying the fluid is only a partial match to Madeleine's DNA and the sample is not strong enough to determine the presence of drugs.

The report supports theories published in Portugal that Kate McCann was involved in Madeleine's death while on holiday in Portugal, and that her husband helped her dispose of their daughter's body.

The couple's supporters have dismissed the theories as "rumour-mongering", fuelled by sources in the floundering police investigation, London's Daily Mail newspaper said.

Madeleine went missing from the family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on May 3.

Other unconfirmed reports say Portuguese police want to reinterview both Mrs McCann and some of the friends on holiday with the couple when Madeleine went missing.

Both parents have been named formal suspects in their daughter's disappearance.

Portuguese newspapers have suggested Mrs McCann could face charges of homicide by negligence and concealing Madeleine's corpse.

Source

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Girl's Case 'May Solve McCann Mystery'

By Alex Watts

Sky News Online Reporter

Updated: 09:28, Friday September 14, 2007

Portuguese detectives have been urged to ditch their case against Gerry and Kate McCann and re-open the investigation into a girl who disappeared in similar circumstances to Madeleine.

Crime expert Mark Williams-Thomas believes there are far too many similarities between the two cases for it not to be a strong line of police inquiry.

Mr Williams-Thomas, a former detective who is now a child protection specialist, said: "I can't accept that Gerry and Kate as parents of the child could have been involved in her murder - even based on the fact that over 90% of murders are domestic-related.

"What I have difficulty in understanding is they would have killed her and stored her body for at least 25 days and left no evidence.

"At the very least the body would have started to decompose, especially in a hot country. And there was a huge risk of someone finding that body."

He believes the answer to the case may lie in the disappearance of an eight-year-old Portuguese girl in 2004.

Joana Cipriano vanished from a village just seven miles from Praia da Luz, where Madeleine disappeared.

Neither body has been found.

Joana's mother and uncle were jailed for her murder, but five police officers have now been accused of forcing false confessions out of them.

Mr Williams-Thomas believes that because of the huge doubts over the convictions, whoever abducted Joana is more than likely to be behind Madeleine's disappearance.

He said he could not understand why the police are pursuing their "ludicrous" investigation into the McCanns, when such a strong line of inquiry remains open.

He added: "There's not a single case in the UK where two children who are unknown to each other have been abducted or disappeared within a period of four years in a seven-mile radius.

"On that basis it has to be a serious line of inquiry to eliminate it as a huge coincidence.

"Portugal is a small country with very, very few abductions so two young girls vanishing out of thin air with their bodies never being recovered is something that needs to be investigated."

Joana vanished on September 12, 2004, after setting off from home in the village of Figueira to collect groceries. She never returned.

Like Madeleine McCann's case, the police investigation got off to a bad start. They failed to seal off the house where she was last seen.

Joana's mother Leonor and her brother Joao were jailed for 16 years for her murder.

But they claim they were set up and police have been named as suspects in their "torture".

Cipriano alleges police beat her to make her confess. A photograph of her heavily-bruised face was published in Portuguese newspapers.

She says the interrogation took place without her lawyer present and without the knowledge of the public prosecutor.

Police claimed Joana discovered Cipriano and her brother having sex when she returned with the groceries.

They said the pair were afraid Joana would tell what she saw and killed her.

Mr Williams-Thomas says because of the doubt over the safety of the convictions, the case should be re-opened.

But to compound the Madeleine investigation further, a senior detective in the hunt is one of the five officers alleged to have extracted the confessions.

Goncalo Amaral, who is number three in the Madeleine inquiry, and his officers have been accused of torture, omission of evidence and falsification of documents.

Portugal's Ministerio Publico has not revealed who has been accused of which offence.

Mr Williams-Thomas said: "This casts huge doubt in my mind about the integrity of the investigating officer.

"Even if we work on the basis that he is innocent, given this allegation against him, he shouldn't have anything to do with the Madeleine investigation."

He stressed: "There are so many similarities between the cases it has to be eliminated.

"Therefore to consider solely Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects rather than considering all the options is ludicrous."

The former detective also heavily criticised the Portuguese police inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.

Commenting on their emergency application to seize Gerry McCann's laptop computer and reportedly even Madeleine's favourite toy Cuddle Cat, he said: "I think it's amazing that they haven't already seized them.

"This is the whole problem with the case. They are treating Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects but aren't dealing with them as suspects.

"Why didn't they do that when she went missing? They are back-tracking.

"They are trying to recover the situation, forensically and evidentally, they lost at the first opportunity."

Another crime expert believes even if the police do charge the McCanns they will struggle to convict them - because Madeleine's body is still missing and there is no evidence that has been made public to suggest she is even dead.

Desmond Thomas, a former deputy head of Hampshire CID who is now a forensic management consultant, says he does not believe anyone will be found guilty unless a body or weapon is discovered.

He said: "I think the Portuguese police are struggling. Of course, we cannot be sure about exactly what is in the dossier they have prepared.

"But from what we know this far, if I was bringing the charges, I would be nervous about it being successful.

"The only way I can see anyone being successfully charged is if the body is found and they can link it clearly to them."

This may be some solace to the McCanns, but then Portuguese courts may have a different conviction rate to UK courts.

After all, detectives managed to "solve" Joana's murder, and there was no body or weapon found.

Source: http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283987,00.html

Yet more theories..... why do I keep thinking about Lindy Chamberlain.... perhaps its because she too was tried and convicted by the media... and not on real evidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Girl's Case 'May Solve McCann Mystery'

By Alex Watts

Sky News Online Reporter

Updated: 09:28, Friday September 14, 2007

Portuguese detectives have been urged to ditch their case against Gerry and Kate McCann and re-open the investigation into a girl who disappeared in similar circumstances to Madeleine.

Crime expert Mark Williams-Thomas believes there are far too many similarities between the two cases for it not to be a strong line of police inquiry.

Mr Williams-Thomas, a former detective who is now a child protection specialist, said: "I can't accept that Gerry and Kate as parents of the child could have been involved in her murder - even based on the fact that over 90% of murders are domestic-related.

"What I have difficulty in understanding is they would have killed her and stored her body for at least 25 days and left no evidence.

"At the very least the body would have started to decompose, especially in a hot country. And there was a huge risk of someone finding that body."

He believes the answer to the case may lie in the disappearance of an eight-year-old Portuguese girl in 2004.

Joana Cipriano vanished from a village just seven miles from Praia da Luz, where Madeleine disappeared.

Neither body has been found.

Joana's mother and uncle were jailed for her murder, but five police officers have now been accused of forcing false confessions out of them.

Mr Williams-Thomas believes that because of the huge doubts over the convictions, whoever abducted Joana is more than likely to be behind Madeleine's disappearance.

He said he could not understand why the police are pursuing their "ludicrous" investigation into the McCanns, when such a strong line of inquiry remains open.

He added: "There's not a single case in the UK where two children who are unknown to each other have been abducted or disappeared within a period of four years in a seven-mile radius.

"On that basis it has to be a serious line of inquiry to eliminate it as a huge coincidence.

"Portugal is a small country with very, very few abductions so two young girls vanishing out of thin air with their bodies never being recovered is something that needs to be investigated."

Joana vanished on September 12, 2004, after setting off from home in the village of Figueira to collect groceries. She never returned.

Like Madeleine McCann's case, the police investigation got off to a bad start. They failed to seal off the house where she was last seen.

Joana's mother Leonor and her brother Joao were jailed for 16 years for her murder.

But they claim they were set up and police have been named as suspects in their "torture".

Cipriano alleges police beat her to make her confess. A photograph of her heavily-bruised face was published in Portuguese newspapers.

She says the interrogation took place without her lawyer present and without the knowledge of the public prosecutor.

Police claimed Joana discovered Cipriano and her brother having sex when she returned with the groceries.

They said the pair were afraid Joana would tell what she saw and killed her.

Mr Williams-Thomas says because of the doubt over the safety of the convictions, the case should be re-opened.

But to compound the Madeleine investigation further, a senior detective in the hunt is one of the five officers alleged to have extracted the confessions.

Goncalo Amaral, who is number three in the Madeleine inquiry, and his officers have been accused of torture, omission of evidence and falsification of documents.

Portugal's Ministerio Publico has not revealed who has been accused of which offence.

Mr Williams-Thomas said: "This casts huge doubt in my mind about the integrity of the investigating officer.

"Even if we work on the basis that he is innocent, given this allegation against him, he shouldn't have anything to do with the Madeleine investigation."

He stressed: "There are so many similarities between the cases it has to be eliminated.

"Therefore to consider solely Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects rather than considering all the options is ludicrous."

The former detective also heavily criticised the Portuguese police inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.

Commenting on their emergency application to seize Gerry McCann's laptop computer and reportedly even Madeleine's favourite toy Cuddle Cat, he said: "I think it's amazing that they haven't already seized them.

"This is the whole problem with the case. They are treating Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects but aren't dealing with them as suspects.

"Why didn't they do that when she went missing? They are back-tracking.

"They are trying to recover the situation, forensically and evidentally, they lost at the first opportunity."

Another crime expert believes even if the police do charge the McCanns they will struggle to convict them - because Madeleine's body is still missing and there is no evidence that has been made public to suggest she is even dead.

Desmond Thomas, a former deputy head of Hampshire CID who is now a forensic management consultant, says he does not believe anyone will be found guilty unless a body or weapon is discovered.

He said: "I think the Portuguese police are struggling. Of course, we cannot be sure about exactly what is in the dossier they have prepared.

"But from what we know this far, if I was bringing the charges, I would be nervous about it being successful.

"The only way I can see anyone being successfully charged is if the body is found and they can link it clearly to them."

This may be some solace to the McCanns, but then Portuguese courts may have a different conviction rate to UK courts.

After all, detectives managed to "solve" Joana's murder, and there was no body or weapon found.

Source: http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283987,00.html

Yet more theories..... why do I keep thinking about Lindy Chamberlain.... perhaps its because she too was tried and convicted by the media... and not on real evidence.

Unfortunately, although I don't think that the McCann's were guilty of murder, I feel that there mission to highlight Maddie's plight may back fire, and that the media attention may unfortunately lead to them maybe being convicted in Portugal with no real evidence IMO. So they will suffer possibly on 2 fronts:maybe never seeing Maddie again and being convicted of murder or manslaughter. It is so sad IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My gosh. I really hope her parents aren't involved in this.

But the whole renting the car 25 days after she went missing thing confuses me. IF they did, itprobably means that they hid her for what? 25 days somewhere... and then rented a car and drove her somewhere. Or something close to that anyway.

BUT if it wasn't them, then don't you find it completely coincidental that they rented the EXACT same car as the person who took her?

Or maybe this was planned by her parents and someone else right from the start.

But this case is really quite absurd.

They rented the car weeks after she went missing.

I really don't think it's her parents, to be honest. And all this stuff about her parents being named as suspects - correct me if I'm wrong, but being named as an arguido in Portuguese law just means that the people involved in the case have legal protection against having to answer questions, and the like. So, a lot of people voluntarily come forward as arguidos - I didn't think it was like being named as a suspect here. I guess they have to exhaust all lines of enquiry, too. This little girl has been missing for over one hundred days and she hasn't been found and there's been no significant leads in the enquiries, so they need to cover all bases.

I also think that if a parent is going to do something so heinous as to kill their own child (although I don't think for a minute that Kate and Gerry did), then why do it on holiday? If you look back at past notorious criminals, they committed their crimes in secrecy. It just seems a bit odd that two parents on holiday would murder their little girl and then stay out there while they're being hounded by the press and go to so much trouble to organise these massive international publicity campaigns. It just doesn't add up.

janice514 - My parents used to leave my younger sisters and I in our holiday appartment when we were younger. If that alone is a reason for considering the parents to have murdered their daughter, then every parent who has ever had a missing child should be questioned and charged because they too left their children alone for that period in which they were snatched.

Yeah, that's what I find so coincidental. The car's been used, been returned, 25 days later, the McCann's gone and rented the exact same car.

I don't get it, if they rented the car after she went missing then they must've been framed with the DNA found because there wouldn't be the car when she went missing so someone must've put the DNA on the car afterwards. Am I making sense? I think I'm missing something here....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get it, if they rented the car after she went missing then they must've been framed with the DNA found because there wouldn't be the car when she went missing so someone must've put the DNA on the car afterwards. Am I making sense? I think I'm missing something here....

Yeah, I get what you mean. It's either that, or (not to be negative or anything), they have planned this with the DNA found on the car rented 25 days after and all that (as it is almost impossible to not have anyone notice a body for 25 days) to confuse the investigators.

But that article does have a very good point. But I would think this 'person' would have more sense than to have conducted 2 cases in the same area. It would have been so much more non-suspicious (sorry, can't think of any other word) if they were more apart.

Okay, that probably didn't make sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^ Athough, the person was never caught, and seven years ago is a pretty long time ago - maybe they're just trying their luck again. And also, this girl was Portuguese and Madeleine is English so it's not that suspicious. Maybe if a second Portuguese girl had gone missing it would seem more suspect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The haunting parallels between the 'dingo baby' and missing Madeleine

by RICHARD SHEARS - Last updated at 11:38am on 15th September 2007

A child snatched from her bed, a mother's anguished screams, vicious rumours and two families destroyed...the chilling similarities between the 'dingo baby' case and the McCanns

As Kate and Gerry McCann spend agonising days waiting to hear if they are to be charged with their daughter Madeleine's death, on the other side of the world another mother watches the case with more than a passing interest.

The mere mention of Lindy Chamberlain brings back memories of a missing child drama that gripped the world and remains a talking point to this day, 27 years later.

The now remarried Mrs Chamberlain-Creighton was at the centre of international focus when her baby Azaria vanished in the Australian desert while her family were on a camping holiday.

Despite the mother's claims that she had seen a dingo - a wild dog - running off with her daughter in its jaws, she became the victim of a vicious slur campaign and an intense police investigation.

The similarities between the disappearances of nine-week-old Azaria and four-year-old Madeleine are both striking and chilling.

If Lindy's nightmare is any guide, the McCanns can expect an even more torrid time than they have already experienced.

Lindy has followed every development at her home north of Sydney.

As a woman who was put through the wringer - reviled, charged with murder, jailed, then finally exonerated - she is perhaps the most credible of all observers to declare: "Don't rush to judge the McCanns."

She says: "This sounds like a mirror image of my experience, doesn't it?"

And in a reference to the aggressive questioning Mrs McCann has endured from police in Portugal, Lindy suggests they have been trying to set her up.

Their strategy, she says, is: "Lie and tell us you did it and you can go free. Tell us the truth and you can't."

The parallels between the two cases appear extraordinary, and not just because of doubt over the innocence of the parents.

The parents in each tragedy, all in their 30s, are attractive pillars of society.

The Chamberlains were a deeply religious couple in whom you would trust your soul; he, an evangelical church pastor and she, an active member of his congregation. The McCanns, both doctors, are devoutly religious professionals in whose hands you would put your life.

In scenes played out on opposite sides of the world nearly three decades apart, the parents were dining with friends as the child in question slept with her two fair-haired siblings.

The parents took turns to check on the children, the McCanns walking the 75 yards to their resort apartment from their restaurant table, the Chamberlains walking a little less from the camping ground barbecue area to check in the tent.

In Madeleine's case, one of the McCanns' friends says she saw a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket near the apartment before she was found to be missing.

Lindy claimed to have seen the culprit in her daughter's disappearance - a dingo running off with the child in its jaws.

"They've taken her!" cried Kate running back to the restaurant.

"A dingo's got my baby!" cried Lindy running back to the barbecue table.

As fellow holidaymakers began a vain search of each surrounding area, the anguished mothers attracted worldwide sympathy - until events began to take a terrible turn and suspicion descended on them.

What followed next in each case leads to further astonishing comparisons.

There was no body in either case, no motive for a murder.

The police investigation appeared blundering and involved the search of a car with the alleged discovery of child's blood or fluids in the vehicle.

Both investigations involved an Englishman - a stranger - who became the centre of each inquiry.

In the McCann case this was Robert Murat, who briefly became a suspect after suspicions about his behaviour. In the Chamberlain case, it was a man called David Brett who, as we shall see, acted in an extraordinary manner.

Both cases involved calls by the local police for help from British forensic scientists.

And both resulted in images of a couple flashed round the world, a couple who try to maintain a normal life with their two remaining children as controversy and doubt rage all around them.

For each couple, the personal trauma deepens as the investigation continues. Police in Britain are attempting to seize a diary and a laptop from the McCanns, saying they may hold clues about Madeleine's disappearance.

In the Northern Territory in 1980, detectives raided the Chamberlains' house and took away the father's camera bag.

They believed Lindy had murdered the baby and that her husband had hidden the body in the bag before sneaking out of their motel room in the dead of night, driving to a lonely spot and burying the baby.

This has the same ring about it as the police claims emerging from Portugal, that Madeleine died, perhaps by accident, and the body was hidden before the couple finally drove her to a lonely place and buried her.

In the case of the Chamberlains, it was the mother who was accused of being the perpetrator while her husband was charged with being an accessory after the fact of murder.

We still haven't a clue what will happen in the Madeleine affair, but no one would wish upon any innocent parent the same trauma that consumed the Chamberlains.

It resulted in Lindy being sentenced to life in jail before her dramatic release, and later in the collapse of her marriage.

I was one of the first journalists to arrive at Ayers Rock when news emerged that a Seventh Day Adventist Pastor's baby had disappeared into the night, snatched from the holiday tent by a dingo.

How well I remember the Chamberlains standing with their other children, Reagan, four, and Aidan, six, in their arms as they spoke of their beloved daughter's plight - an image that came flooding back when I saw similar photos of the besieged McCanns holding their children.

Messages of sympathy for the Chamberlains flowed in from around the world as the search continued for the baby.

A week later, after the couple had left Ayers Rock, a tourist found Azaria's blood-stained jumpsuit near a dingo lair. Dingos were shot by rangers, but there was no sign of human remains in their stomachs.

More than a decade before DNA became accepted in police investigations, I attended the inquest into Azaria's presumed death.

Coroner Denis Barritt decided that Azaria had probably been taken by a dingo and, confusingly, that her body had later been removed from the animal by a human and disposed of "by an unknown method".

The finding did not satisfy police, who called for forensic help from the UK. Dr James Cameron from the London Hospital Medical College concluded from an ultra-violet scan of the jumpsuit that there was a bloody imprint of a small human hand, possibly a woman's, on the back of the clothing.

He believed the baby had been held while she was bleeding. Police seized the Chamberlains' car and found what they believed were traces of baby's blood in the bolts holding the passenger seat to the floor.

Cuts in the baby's jumpsuit that were initially thought to have been from the dingo's teeth were later claimed to have been made by scissors to make it look like a dingo attack - and this clearly implicated the Chamberlains.

Then a forensic scientist insisted that she had found a spray of baby's arterial blood in the footwell of the car. And there was no dingo saliva on the jumpsuit which, detectives claimed, should have been there if a dog had carried the baby away.

"But Azaria was wearing a little jacket over the jumpsuit," Lindy cried.

"Search and you'll find the jacket out there somewhere."

No jacket was found.

She was charged with murder, the Crown claiming that she had, for unstated reasons, sat with Azaria in the car and cut her throat, possibly with scissors. She was jailed for life, and her husband was given an 18-month suspended sentence.

They lost their subsequent appeals.

Four years after the trial, in an incredible breakthrough which received little publicity, British tourist David Brett was climbing Ayers Rock when he fell to his death.

Close by his body police discovered a partially-buried piece of clothing. It was the jacket Lindy said Azaria had been wearing.

Within days, Lindy was released from jail. Not only had the jacket been discovered, but the forensic scientist who claimed to have established there had been baby's blood in the car's footwell was found to have made a serious mistake - the substance was sound-deadening fluid.

The Chamberlains were exonerated by the Supreme Court and later received compensation estimated at £700,000.

They went on to receive more through media interviews, but their legal fees in their fight to clear their names were said to be in excess of £2million.

It was only later, as I was researching a book, that I discovered how extraordinary had been the involvement of David Brett, who came from Hartley in Kent, and was 31 when he fell to his death from the rock.

He was on his second visit to Australia, and planning to stay for three years. But in May 1985 he wrote to his mother and told her that "something strange" was happening to him.

Within a month, he was begging a church leader by the name of Pastor Michael Gabrielson to exorcise him because he claimed there was a demon in his stomach.

Pastor Gabrielson was convinced David was in the grip of an evil power, but was unable to "cleanse" him.

David moved into a flat in Sydney, and when he moved out again in January 1986, he left behind newspaper cuttings about Azaria's disappearance. He was next seen walking in a trance towards Ayers Rock in central Australia.

An Aboriginal couple saw him climbing the rock in an area where tourists are forbidden.

It was 8pm on Sunday January 26, 1986 - the same day of the week and time that Azaria vanished. His body was found the following Sunday.

The curious case of David Brett led to conspiracy theories.

Had someone brainwashed a mentally disturbed man to commit suicide at that very place so that the baby's jacket would be found close to where he landed?

If that was the case, who was behind it?

And why hadn't the little jacket been found when the baby disappeared, despite intensive searching around Ayers Rock?

The mystery was never solved.

To this day, despite the police case against the Chamberlains being totally discredited, there are many in Australia who still believe they were involved in their daughter's disappearance.

So it is to Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton that we should turn for how the McCanns might cope.

She's been there.

"There is no textbook to say 'This is how you handle it'," she says.

"All you can hope for is that you learn to swim and you don't get too many gulps of water while you are doing it."

SourceHERE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.