What is correct SPAG?

[Lolzi]

Okay so what exactly is allowed in swearing and if we do, do we have to use characters e.g s#*t??

[Claire]

The swear filter should block the worst words like **** etc. Try not to swear excessively with other words...

Just a note to all - this thread is aimed at SPAG, rather than the discussion of the board rules in general

I'm a stickler for proper English... largely because it looks neat and professional... so anything I can do to help anyone brush up on their SPAG skills...

[Pierced Musie]

I need some help and I hope I don't get laughed at here

Would someone like to explain to me, in basic form, the difference between the words there and their?

Could you also include some sentence examples?

[MarMar]

I need some help and I hope I don't get laughed at here

Would someone like to explain to me, in basic form, the difference between the words there and their?

Could you also include some sentence examples?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There: We use here for the place the speaker/writer is, and there for other places.

Place adverbs most often go in end position, but front postion is possible, especially in literary writing and if the adverb is not the main focus of the message. In this case the verb often comes before the subject.

At the end of the garden stood a very tall tree.

On the grass sat an enormous frog. Down came the rain.

Here and there often begin the clause. Note the word order in Here/There is,

Here comes and there goes.

Here comes your bus

There's Alice. There goes our train!

Pronoun subjects come directly after here and there.

Here it comes.

There she is.

Their: Mine, yours, his, hers, ours and theirs are similar to my, your etc, but they are not determined, and not used without following nouns.

Compare: That's my coat. That coat is mine.

etc.

Them/they/their is often used to refer to a singular indefinite person. This is common after a person, anybody/one, somebody/one, nobody/one, whoever, each, every, either and no. They has a plural verb in this case.

If a person doesn't want to go in living, they are often very difficult to help.

If anybody calls, take their name and ask them to call again later.

Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Would they please collect it?

This singular use of them/they/their is convenien when the person referred to could be either male or female (as in the examples above) He or she, him or her and his or her are clumsy, especially when repeated, and many people dislike the traditional use of he/him/his in this situation (this is what's sometimes referred to as "sexist language").

Correctness

This use of they/them/their has existed for centuries, and is perfectly correct. It is most common in an informal style, but can also be found in a formal written English. Here is an example from a British passport application form:

Dual nationality: if the child possesses the nationality or citizenship of another country they may lose this when they get a British Passport.

I've got their car over there

"Their car" can be, for instance, my parent's car, and "over there" is where it is parked.

[Frankie]

Wow Mercury girl.

Just a quickie that my english teacher taught us at school as an aide memoire. If you want to remeber which there/their to use remember that this there has there written in it and HERE is a place.

[MarMar]

That's a good way of remembering the difference Thanks!

[Natalia]

As an English teacher, people who don't at least TRY to use proper English drive me crazy!

One mistake almost everybody makes is using the made up word 'ALOT'.

THIS IS NOT A WORD!!

If you want to say there are 'a lot' of things, remember it is two words.

The word 'allot' (with two 'l's), means to distribute.

Unfortunately, the rise of internet usage has drastically lowered people's ability to spell correctly and use correct grammar. People pick up each other's bad English. Even adults are forgetting everything they were taught at school.

edit: And, as Mercury Girl has just demonstrated, European people who speak English as a second language are generally much better at spelling and grammar than native speakers!

[Si-Co]

I agree with you Natalia; I think the internet/SMS text-messaging is largely responsible for sloppy grammar these days. So many companies are now adopting internet-style logos (eg. northern rock, itv) with no capital letters where they should be. They may feel it looks more friendly, which may be true in the case of a company logo, but not in everyday writing.

Anyway, I have a question! As a northerner, I occasionally use 'were' instead of 'was' in everyday speech (eg. "That film were good") but putting slang aside, which sentences are correct below?

"If I were a rich man, I would buy Summer Bay", or

"If I was a rich man, I would buy Summer Bay".

"I'd save my money if that were me", or

"I'd save my money if that was me".

I suspect that both 'was' and 'were' are acceptable in the above sentences. However, I remember learning that they are actually examples of the subjunctive tense, and therefore 'were' is technically the right answer.

A tad confused!

[John]

Just a thought on all this. I think that we have to concede that the detailed study of spelling, grammar and sentence structure rules is not for everyone.

Most people use language for communication and in this context it is important that "standard english" is used to the extent that it allows people to understand other people's communication. Slavish adherence to "professionally correct" spelling and grammar rules is not necessary for this.

I always told my students that the greatest sin in writing was to be boring!! If you're boring nobody will want to read what you write regardless of how grammatically correct you are.

Also remember that English is a living language. Rules of usage, spelling etc. are always changing. A change becomes "standard english" when the majority of users accept it.

[MarMar]

Anyway, I have a question?  As a northerner, I occasionally use 'were' instead of 'was' in everyday speech (eg.  "That film were good") but putting slang aside, which sentences are correct below?

"If I were a rich man, I would buy Summer Bay", or

"If I was a rich man, I would buy Summer Bay".

"I'd save my money if that were me", or

"I'd save my money if that was me".

I suspect that both 'was' and 'were' are acceptable in the above sentences. However, I remember learning that they are actually examples of the subjunctive tense, and therefore 'were' is technically the right answer.

A tad confused!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unreal situations

We use special structure with if when we are talking about unreal situations - things that will probably not happen, situations that are untrue or imaginary and similar ideas. Ine these cases, we use past tenses and would to 'distance' our language from reality.

If I were etc

We often use were instead of was after if. This is common in both formal and informal style. In a formal style were is more common than was, and many people consider it more correct, especially in American Ebglish. The grammatical name for this use of were is 'subjunctive'.

If I were rich, I would spend all my time travelling.

If my nose were a little shorter I'd be quite pretty.

Advice

We often use the structure If I were you... to give advice.

I shouldn't worry if I were you.

If I were you, I'd get that car serviced.

If I was you is also possible. Some people consider it incorrect.