idris

First part would be in character, second wouldn't, but it would be a lot of fun to watch Indi get herself into a flap. I don't think Annie would be that interested in him, but Indi would imagine she was. But somehow I don't think it will happen.

I can't help but link a question, and subsequent answer, I have just asked/received in the 'General Discussion' sub-forum, with this thread. http://www.backtothebay.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42660 I think it gives a clear indication as to whether or not Charlotte jumped ship for the reasons commonly assumed at the time: - i.e. her return to full time education. So why would she audition for a film that would take her to the U.S.A. for 3+ months ? I've also seen an interview, with Jordan, in which he says - "I guess they (Home and Away) kind of gave me the boot." It's pretty clear that there was a cull of the cast in mid 2009, and that the innocent were washed down the plug-hole with the guilty (that's my take what happened anyway.)

It's impossible for you to make factual mistakes in your own fanfic Jen. I think it's Aden, he's obviously colour blind. Don't the rest of the team have girlfriends ? Do they even know that girls exist ? Football.....Bloody Hell !

Really enjoying the first 2 episodes Jen. Especially so because Aden comes across as a likeable human being (how many times has that been said on these boards ?) And Annie is a little older, a 'new' arrival, but with the same warm, kind character. Just one little thing though. Well, two really. And not so little if a guy the size of Aden can get lost in them. And I know it's your fanfic', and I know that Aden may not have been seeing straight (love is blind etc,) but they're green aren't they ?

I'd have thought that my last post was self explanatory, but if you didn't understand why I wrote what I wrote, I'll spell it out for you. I do think she was axed, for reasons I've posted on here previously. No offense, but please scroll back to see the discussions, because they are too detailed to keep repeating. I expressed it as I did, through a direct comparison with what I saw happening to similarly aged characters on Neighbours, to highlight the fact that directors can, and do, pick favourites. I also picked those 2 because I think it's pretty clear the director got it wrong. The opposite of picking favourites is also true, they marginalise characters by employing the devices, on H&A just the same as on Neighbours, that I explained in my post. Another recent example of this in action would be Rachel and Tony sidelined by a lack of storylines. Saying this might make some think that I'm strengthening the argument that Charlotte left because she was bored/frustrated etc. But if you look at it from another angle, that of the 'management'; - that they had little interest in her or her character, so they didn't develop it because they knew they weren't going to renew her initial contract when it finished - that fits the evidence that we have about her departure. There is, as far as I know, no evidence at all that she quit.

j.laur5 "Somebody Up There Likes Me." (With acknowledgement to Rocky Graziano / Paul Newman.) Rather than go over the previously posted discussions on this j.laur5, here's my take on a character from Neighbours that is, I think, relevant. About 2 years ago, for about 9 months, I was a regular Neighbours viewer. I took an instant dislike to one character before I had even heard her speak. It was her walk - it was much too intense, attention seeking and well....actorly. She scampered everywhere on tip toes, a bit like you'd expect a vampire to do if they were hurrying around sucking the emotions out of the human actors. Amazing fact about this character - Bridget - I saw that a Neighbour's fan had compiled a character episode count, for 2008 I think it was, and guess what ? Bridget, a recently introduced teen had the highest count for the year. It got better for me every episode I watched her in. The camera (Somebody up there...) loved her. When she was speaking, it lingered on her. When she was being spoken to, it lingered on her again for her reaction shot. When she was in a group scene, she always seemed to be centre stage and got the most close ups. It wasn't as if she was photogenic either. Her best friend was Rachel (Caitlin Stasey,) I can safely say that no matter what Caitlin Stasey goes on to achieve, and she does seem set to achieve quite a bit, no one will get to know what the back of her head looks like better than the people who watched Neighbours during Bridget's time. Ironic and instructive really, that the director, or whoever favoured Bridget over Rachel, should have backed the wrong actor. They don't always get it right. That's one point to learn from this. So......imagine what happens when "Somebody Up There Doesn't Like Me." Less episodes, weak storylines, the camera leaves you before you've finished your line (not helpful when you've got a softer speaking voice than most) and doesn't return for your reaction shot when it should. You won't get many close ups, if any, even if you are photogenic. Group scenes ? Forget it - you'll be left out of shot if you're lucky, or worse, you'll be half / in half out of the shot. If you agree that even half of this is true, who would blame an actor for wanting to leave ? But I still don't think that Charlotte quit.

RR - the point you raise about when 'they' (the writers ?) found out that Charlotte was leaving is interesting. I think the mgt. would have decided not to renew her contract, which I presume was for 2 years (ending autumn 2009 - which it did,) sometime around early 2009. An interesting question which springs from that is: - why did they develop Annie (and Jai) for about a year and then leave her/them in limbo for a year ? You'd know better than I would if the writing team changed around that time. It would explain some of the mess if that was the case. Otherwise I'll stick to my original thought that they didn't know what to do with a young girl who was developing so fast. As if that hadn't happened before in the history of the world.....ever. I mentioned her growing up precisely for that reason - she seemed to shoot up during her first year. That hit me when I looked at one of the TV week scans earlier this year (January ?) about her 'coming return' for the ill-fated 6 weeks. They used an old 'stock' shot from 2007, when she was 13 - and looked it. So I did some height comparisons against Indiana Evans; - Charlotte was about 2 inches shorter in 2007, and 2 inches taller in November 2009 (and I presume that Indiana was also growing, not shrinking, during that time.) I wouldn't have minded Annie being less naive/innocent, or more assertive in lots of ways for that matter - and not just with boys, but she became just plain unfathomable at the end. Not her fault of course, I just feel sorry for any young actor given that kind of mixed up characterisation to play out, followed by a dismal exit.

It's O.K. jodlebirger, I was only comparing the worst part of upland U.K. in winter with your largest city. I agree with what you wrote about Annie/Romeo - she was sacrificed to set (or as you said, reset) his character. In the end it was really poor writing. I'm not too sure that H&A have any interest in continuity of character, or community, these days. Perhaps the security of the C5 'lifetime' deal has made them complacent. Or perhaps they're aiming at an audience that has a much shorter attention/memory span than some of us have ? I think the worst aspect of Annie's character decline/departure was that there wasn't a convincing explanation for her behaviour, or decision making, at the end.

You think Norway has weather ? (O.K. I've been on the Cairngorms in winter, and was told it's nowhere near as bad a downtown Oslo....) But the Brits invented weather - just to have something to talk about, until H&A came along. Anyway: - Annie. Poor Annie, poor Charlotte. I've been time traveling myself recently (I won't say how in case the 'Yahoos' are reading,) and without, I hope, spoilerising you; here's my opinion: - I think Charlotte was given a very difficult role to play at too early an age for the way that H&A has been going over the last 3 years. By that, I mean she was asked to play a 'mouse-like' character, whereas it soon became obvious she didn't look like that in reality. In the episodes you are referring to she was just turned 14. Imagine you're in a scene with your 'best friend' Ruby (15 going on 22) , and / or Irene etc, and you are given few, or no, lines - just asked to give reaction shots. Easy ? Nope ! Add the strange camera angles chosen in many group shots - and it's not just H&A guilty of this - director's favourite gets the mug shot while the viewer gets to see the back of the other character's head, even if they are speaking.... it could well have been Coleen (or Alf ?) in a wig and Annie's dress, for all we know. Or she's just cut out of the group shot alltogether. Annie/Charlotte was pretty animated when she first appeared in H&A, she was then given no interesting storylines, and was relegated to 'extra' status around the episodes we are discussing. I think it was very inconvenient for H&A that she developed physically so quickly, I think they wanted a 'nerdy' little girl. However, the 'teenage' girls who play the vamps - Ruby and Nicole, were soon being eclipsed by Annie, but the storylines, rightly, couldn't reflect that - because Charlotte was too young. I can't say anymore , or it's spoiler time for you, but I would say that I'm sure Charlotte would have been much better received 10 - 15 years ago. I'm not sure if it's H&A or the public that has changed most over that period. O.K. I will say something else - I remember seeing Michael Caine giving a movie acting class once (on TV, not in person,) and he stressed that the camera does all the work in the cinema (the same would apply to TV.) The screen actor is not on a stage, projecting themselves to the back row. The camera can, and should, get right up close to the actor's face. Stage acting isn't like screen acting. I think many soap actors/directors could learn a lesson from Mr. Caine. I'm not saying that Charlotte should be giving master classes in screen acting just yet, but some on H&A could learn not to overact as much as they do. You keep on adding more and more spice to your food, and pretty soon you can't taste the food.

I'm a little unsure as to how anyone can have a proper discussion about this with you Bahorel, without risking spoilers for you, and ennui for most of us. You're referring to episodes that are 2 years ago for most of us. Of course, those who never liked Annie/Charlotte can just reiterate what you've just written, in their own fashion. I was going to suggest that since the episodes you are watching are from almost the same date that this thread started, your first port of call could be page 1, October 2008, and you will see that this topic has been well discussed already. But, if you do decide to do this, be warned that you will encounter spoilers. The other course of action is that you swap places with me now, thus avoiding huge chunks of Annie, and far worse storylines and acting involving others on the show, than Annie was ever involved with. That seems like a good deal, for you, to me. All I get is to live in a country with the most amazing coastline and no national debt. :cool:

Thanks for all the work and thought that went into these two fics Red Ranger (and all the other ones I've read.) Feels like things have come full circle between these two; but displaced to Japan, and out of camera range.

I'm glad you've allowed the better aspects of their characters to get them out of that mess of their own creation. I think I made a similar comment, seems like a long time ago now in one of your previous fics, about how good it is that you keep their characters consistent. I still sense a few degrees of impatience in Jai though. Not sure what Nina expects to happen now between herself and Jai. Neither do I, which is how it should be really.

I hope Jai realizes how selfless Nina is being. Wonder how Annie will react to all this ? Perhaps she'll be as selfless as Nina ? The film I mentioned was true story, involving the same dilemma - whether to cut the rope. It was 18,000 ft up in the Andes though. What was really interesting was how the 2 climbers involved dealt with it afterward. The one who had to make the decision didn't want anything to do with the film. The other wrote the book that was made into the film. No matter how many times he denied it, and forgave his climbing buddy, it must have been like being on permanent trial for the other guy.

I just mentioned the film because of the decision that one of the two climbers had to make. Don't worry about the 'original ideas' problem. Humans stopped having those in the middle cave-man period didn't they ?

What won't Jai do to get Annie's attention? Ever seen the film 'Touching the Void' ? I hope for Jai's sake that Annie hasn't.

There's quite a difference between being camp and being gay. I think he's in danger of becoming a Mini-Miles as far as the camp thing goes. Still, early days yet.

I hope Jai's not thinking of two-timing Nina. I'll be really annoyed with him if he is.

By the miracle of modern technology I went back in time and watched the Campbell’s intro to H&A. Apart from C.B./Annie being more animated back then, and the antagonistic, one-dimensional portrayal of a religious family (and no, I’m not religious) I think that initially Geoff was a character who veered around from wanting to protect Annie from the wickedness he saw represented by SBH, by imitating ‘Pops’, and being tempted to join in the fun. Anyway, many older siblings do tend to behave like that until the younger one fights for their own independence. I think Jai and Annie were progressing at about the right pace, especially considering her views regarding SBM, but there was a hiatus when both of them seemed to be just extras, hanging around Ruby and Xavier. Jumping from their screen life to real life; when the show knew that JR was leaving to do Dance Academy (or they released him and he then went for it ?) they deconstructed Annie/Jai’s relationship, then they trashed Annie’s character to suit Romeo‘s story line. Initially I thought her relationship with Romeo was going to allow her to be more mature and have serious story lines, but that thought soon evaporated with the testy/immature banter that went on endlessly between them. Not sure how anyone can look back on it now and think it was a proper romantic relationship. In most ways it was a very contrived, paint by numbers, pseudo-teen relationship that seemed disappointingly, and perversely, aimed at pre-teens. Especially so considering the hype about how ‘mature’ Annie was going to be when she came back from Japan. In most senses it was never allowed to develop like other teen relationships on the show. It was never going to go anywhere except the dustbin.

I actually think the character was worse off without those two and perhaps to a lesser extent Belle. They stuck her in a more conventional relationship which I found far less interesting than the sweet and quirky one she had with Jai.And without Geoff we didn't really see that affectionate, sarky side she used to show with him.If her last few months on the show are indicative of the direction they were planning to take her in, turning one of the few genuinely different characters into just another whiney teenager with only the occasional hint of the fun, caring character she was for her first two years, it's probably best she left when she did. I guess they gave her a "Everyone in the Bay turns up to say goodbye to her(except for her and Jai's best friends)" farewell when she left the first time so they didn't really need to do it again.At least she actually said goodbye to someone before she left town, that's more than at least one recent departure... Last September I would probably have agreed that the relationship with Romeo was a conventional direction for a teen to take. Which wouldn't have been a problem if they had kept the rest of her personality intact. But that didn't happen, even though they knew she was leaving. And given that, I can't believe that they planned to take her in any direction, other than towards the exit sign. In fact, while she was on the show, her character seemed to be going in different directions at once, from disloyal, hard nosed student to sub-D*sn*y Channel teen..... "1,2,3, I Love You." Wish I hadn't just recalled that moment in the diner. Remember it was all about Romeo, not Annie. They didn't care what they did to her, and still don't, as long as Romeo comes up smelling of roses by comparison. Roses need fertiliser don't they ? So...."More manure for Romeo !"

Like I said, little lies can cause big troubles, but Hugh isn't that dumb now, it seems, to realize that telling the truth can too. A month ago I bet he would have said something different in response to Annie's last question.

The way I look at it now j.laur5 is that I agree with most of the first point you made: although I think her character should easily have been able to emerge from the shadow of the other characters, so I wouldn't have minded Geoff or Jai remaining in her life. But.... because none of those possible storylines can happen now, I don't really care that she didn't have proper farewell scenes - as I wrote on May 30th - "Thinking about it now, I really wouldn’t have wanted to have seen goodbye scenes for Annie, because her leaving for good at age 16, with no rhyme or reason to it, would have made them doomed attempts to legitimise a stupid storyline." Wot a waste.

Little lies can cause big troubles. Big lies, like the ones Annie and Jai told, who knows ? I think that was a big lie for Annie to have told, given her past with Jai. I also think Jai is just as guilty, because he was wanting to keep up a facade in front of Annie, and in the process has compromised Nina.

Will Annie be consistent ? She's just walked away from a relationship, and her past. Will Nina be too deferential if.......? Interesting.

Annie's problem dealing with in growing up, knowing what she wants, and what she doesn't want, is a difficult one to resolve. You've basically got the same problem the show had...... why does she run away from her true feelings ? (Assuming they are her true feelings.) But she'll never find out if she doesn't let them fly for once. I'm assuming that Belgian pace is well behind ours ? So... As Barbara says, and I would echo, a good, well written fic. With a chance of a sequel ? P.S. Rock climbing ?? This is a girl who they'd have us believe fell over flat sand on a beach. P.P.S. Come to think of it though, Irene's attitude towards Annie was enough to send anyone up the (rock) wall.

Seriously, yes she did. The farm was her family home, so I'm not sure how much more into it she was expected to be. Didn't drift away of her own accord - it was taken from her by the bank. I won't labour the point as to the others but I think you misunderstood me here.I was talking about when Martha bought the farm.Annie just seemed to go there, have a look around and decide that that part of her life was over and there was no point going back to it, unlike Geoff who we saw helping Martha out there on a fairly regular basis.I think we only saw Annie there on one later occasion, when a whole crowd of residents were helping out and she was playing matchmaker for Irene and Lou.I wouldn't say that Annie had a special connection to the farm or to Martha, certainly not at the time she left for Japan. I accept that Annie wasn't attached to the farm by the time she left for Japan (btw, although Annie lived there, and mucked in as best she could, I don't think Annie would have been as adept as Geoff helping out on the farm; they are built slightly differently. ) I don't think it's about 'special' connections with anyone really, more about normal social relationships with people who were involved in her life over the last 2 years. They're part of the glue that holds any community together, and that seems to have been left out recently.